276 Charles Boutens Over Uman, Sales En Muziek | What's On Your Mind? (Dutch/Nederlands)

[00:00:00] A one engineer physically became a web developer,

[00:00:04] who later became a machine learning artist and now is a CEO and founder of a sales pitch company.

[00:00:12] And he is also allowed to be called Human, that's Human without the H.

[00:00:16] Charles Boutens, Wannen Kastaar.

[00:00:19] I met him a few weeks ago at an event called We Are Sales.

[00:00:22] He talked to me about how I had made a sharp bootade because I was allowed to moderate a session.

[00:00:29] And that's how it was, the sales. We had a conversation and I felt intuitively that it was a special Q&A.

[00:00:37] I asked him, he came here with three assistants, nice and prepared,

[00:00:43] and something that isn't alcohol-based, because they still have to try,

[00:00:46] but I don't know if that's what it is, and he said,

[00:00:50] I want to have a drink, because he wants to make it known.

[00:00:53] Anyway, we're going to have a conversation with Charles, a super boring conversation with a guy full of passion,

[00:01:00] insights, and he's also a musician, also a guitarist.

[00:01:04] Enjoy Charles' conversation and walk free. This conversation is full of hard work.

[00:01:09] Welcome to What's On Your Mind with Peter Snouaert.

[00:01:13] Every week a guest tells a story about him,

[00:01:16] and that story can inspire you to take your life into your hands.

[00:01:21] Charles, what I find a bit special is probably...

[00:01:28] I still have a long time, I've had a lot of prejudices.

[00:01:32] I don't know, I'm a sadist.

[00:01:35] So I have to say that I thought about it very hard.

[00:01:41] I would always do it, I'm only aware of it, because I want to do it myself.

[00:01:47] And I saw that he was a engineer, I can say that.

[00:01:55] You can say that.

[00:01:57] What was his specialization?

[00:02:00] If you would have to put me in a coach.

[00:02:02] No, I'm going straight to my point.

[00:02:06] Physically?

[00:02:07] Yes, I thought it was physical.

[00:02:09] What I find so special is that I've known you for two years, a couple of weeks ago.

[00:02:17] And you made an impression on me,

[00:02:21] because it felt very upright to me.

[00:02:25] Because I made a pretty sharp statement about the automated e-mail sequencers,

[00:02:33] who send me e-mails to potential clients.

[00:02:37] And you talked about it because we didn't know each other.

[00:02:40] And I think that's so strange.

[00:02:43] You did engineering studies, and that's my advantage.

[00:02:49] You're part of the AI board in Belgium, in M6.

[00:02:53] I have to say that now, next to the racoon, we are in the bar.

[00:02:55] So I have to look up a bit what I'm saying.

[00:02:58] I really don't want to say it.

[00:03:02] And now you're CEO, founder of a platform that is a self-speech company.

[00:03:08] But that's still going on.

[00:03:11] And you do have a commercial flair.

[00:03:14] I'm sure I'm a web developer.

[00:03:19] What's the point of that?

[00:03:20] You always say, hey, it's coming from your parents.

[00:03:22] Do you understand my question?

[00:03:24] I understand your question.

[00:03:25] It's not a stereotype if you think that you're an engineer.

[00:03:28] But there are a lot of engineers who say,

[00:03:31] sales is still flat and simple.

[00:03:36] They think sales is what they do.

[00:03:39] That's what I'm saying.

[00:03:40] But what does it start to do when they come into a founder position?

[00:03:44] We've always been like that.

[00:03:45] But I think there's a difference.

[00:03:48] It's spontaneous and what you're talking about with Triggeredil,

[00:03:51] and then you talk about it.

[00:03:53] And I think that passion is over and over and over again.

[00:03:56] That's spontaneous, what Triggeredil has to do with you

[00:04:00] and you're talking about it.

[00:04:02] If you look at the sales aspect,

[00:04:04] that's something I'm really grown up in.

[00:04:06] So wait, stop it.

[00:04:08] I think it's important what you're saying.

[00:04:09] What you're actually saying, Charle, is

[00:04:13] I'm a commercial.

[00:04:16] And commercial means that I'm allowed to leave the company

[00:04:19] and have a conversation.

[00:04:21] And besides that, there's a sales scene

[00:04:23] where there's consistency,

[00:04:25] skills, etc.

[00:04:28] But it's not surprising to know people

[00:04:32] after the company.

[00:04:33] I don't know them.

[00:04:34] I don't really know them.

[00:04:37] I'm not the most on an event,

[00:04:40] the most outgoing that everyone should have seen.

[00:04:42] But if I have a good click with someone,

[00:04:44] or I feel a connection or a shared passion,

[00:04:47] then I can really go into a conversation and start over there.

[00:04:50] And I think, before I said it,

[00:04:51] you were very good at the way you approach it,

[00:04:53] how you bring it, that Triggeredil with me.

[00:04:56] And that gave me energy to say,

[00:04:58] but look, here's a shared vision

[00:04:59] or something behind it where we can talk about it.

[00:05:02] I think that's the combination.

[00:05:07] And then the second aspect,

[00:05:08] which you're a little bit underbroken about,

[00:05:10] is that it's the sales piece.

[00:05:12] But for me, that's also the case.

[00:05:15] It's that I haven't seen myself as a sales person in a long time

[00:05:20] while I was doing my whole life.

[00:05:22] And I wasn't a conscious choice.

[00:05:25] And that's not something I can study.

[00:05:28] And that's something that I have to say.

[00:05:31] That's a skill set and a mindset.

[00:05:34] And experience, that's in three aspects.

[00:05:36] That you do your job.

[00:05:39] And yes, we're all two passionate guitarists.

[00:05:46] Guitar is Excel.

[00:05:47] The learning curve is pretty stylish of guitar.

[00:05:50] I have a lot of people who play it

[00:05:52] after a while.

[00:05:55] And that's the only thing that matters.

[00:05:58] You have to have time to listen to it.

[00:06:01] And if you want to play solo later,

[00:06:04] then you have to perform.

[00:06:07] Exactly.

[00:06:08] What else is different?

[00:06:11] I think nobody is born like that.

[00:06:15] But it's a conscious choice to say

[00:06:17] that I want to work on a sales skill

[00:06:20] or a marketing skill

[00:06:21] or a business development skill.

[00:06:23] I think so too, because it starts with guitar.

[00:06:26] I've read a good analogy about the development of a skill.

[00:06:30] I believe that sales have different components.

[00:06:34] The way you are as a person, the way you're driven,

[00:06:37] but also a very good component.

[00:06:39] Skill and performance.

[00:06:40] And they can build up that skill consistently.

[00:06:42] And my guitar is a bit the same.

[00:06:45] Everybody always says

[00:06:45] you have so much experience in music.

[00:06:48] But if you think about it,

[00:06:50] if you start playing guitar

[00:06:51] or drumming, or any new skill,

[00:06:53] at the beginning, if you hold your neck tight,

[00:06:57] what you do is that you grab it

[00:06:58] and you tie it, you pull it, it breaks.

[00:07:01] It falls.

[00:07:02] It falls and it feels very frozen.

[00:07:05] And if you look at how better

[00:07:07] you are as a guitarist, how more natural you are,

[00:07:09] how more you are allowed to let go.

[00:07:10] And that you are more playing

[00:07:11] and feel about your neck.

[00:07:14] And actually, with sales,

[00:07:17] the way I've experienced

[00:07:18] learning sales,

[00:07:20] from nature, from my physical background,

[00:07:23] I always want to understand

[00:07:24] why is there something like this.

[00:07:26] What is underlying it?

[00:07:28] Why do certain questions work?

[00:07:30] Other questions don't.

[00:07:31] How can you get to the core

[00:07:33] through someone's trigger?

[00:07:35] What is underlying the theory behind it?

[00:07:38] Or is it that you're blind?

[00:07:40] And in my own sales career

[00:07:42] or commercial career,

[00:07:44] at the beginning it was to try to understand

[00:07:46] and hold tight to the theory

[00:07:50] and then go very deep into it

[00:07:51] so that sometimes you don't feel natural enough.

[00:07:54] And the longer you practice that skill,

[00:07:56] the more natural it becomes.

[00:07:58] And I'm certainly not the best seller today.

[00:08:01] That's still an experience you have to build up.

[00:08:03] That doesn't exist.

[00:08:05] Because let it be fair.

[00:08:07] I play music for six years

[00:08:09] and for twelve years

[00:08:10] I'm 49 years old.

[00:08:13] So that's a long time.

[00:08:15] But the point is that

[00:08:17] and that's completely what you said

[00:08:18] so I don't know how far you've studied

[00:08:21] with your guitar

[00:08:22] but around my 30th

[00:08:24] I got the opportunity

[00:08:26] to study in the NBA.

[00:08:28] And I was in South Africa

[00:08:32] and I had some colleagues

[00:08:33] and one of them was an open bass player

[00:08:36] and we were drinking something

[00:08:38] and I said

[00:08:40] I'm going to play NBA Wardens

[00:08:42] and it was fantastic to be on my LinkedIn.

[00:08:45] But I'm eager to learn something

[00:08:47] but

[00:08:49] I don't know, I don't feel like

[00:08:51] I can teach you that

[00:08:51] because there's something in me that's against me.

[00:08:55] To teach for bass.

[00:08:55] To teach for the NBA.

[00:08:58] And he said

[00:09:00] why don't you go to study guitar?

[00:09:03] And I said

[00:09:04] I think it's a fantastic idea

[00:09:06] and I have all the best guitarists in Belgium

[00:09:09] Tom Lodenwijk,

[00:09:10] Raph Schillebeek, Rodrigo Fuenteaubach

[00:09:13] I can still go on.

[00:09:14] I have all the best

[00:09:15] I've got, I've contacted

[00:09:16] and he has made me give lessons

[00:09:18] also they did that.

[00:09:21] And because I put it like this

[00:09:23] I'm hanging out with some kind of people

[00:09:25] who do have a lot of lessons

[00:09:26] and I did that too

[00:09:28] I was convinced that

[00:09:30] I was actually learning how to play guitar

[00:09:33] I had to do it again

[00:09:34] because I was limited by myself

[00:09:36] because there were certain bases to be broken

[00:09:38] because I was a classical student

[00:09:40] you didn't learn that

[00:09:41] and you had to learn funk

[00:09:43] jazz and harmony

[00:09:45] that was a world-wide open

[00:09:46] and the point is that

[00:09:48] back then

[00:09:49] I had to do that with ego

[00:09:52] when I started training

[00:09:54] and that was mainly pop and rock

[00:09:56] I had the opportunity to work on all those

[00:10:03] and I came to the guitar Peter Snowart

[00:10:05] it was about a pretty simple song

[00:10:07] then I made a sport

[00:10:09] for Supralocrian with Mixolydian

[00:10:11] and Dorian with 1 million notes

[00:10:13] with sweep picking and tapping

[00:10:14] and all of that

[00:10:15] to integrate

[00:10:16] to be the musician

[00:10:20] I had to see what I could do

[00:10:23] and that

[00:10:25] but that's a phase

[00:10:26] so you have that theoretical phase

[00:10:29] and then comes the integration phase

[00:10:32] that I have been in for years

[00:10:35] and that sounds very strange

[00:10:37] what I'm about to say

[00:10:38] it has all that theory

[00:10:41] that baking

[00:10:42] so I think

[00:10:44] that maybe I'm going to be on top

[00:10:45] with 10% of my knowledge

[00:10:46] the first thing is

[00:10:47] I play for myself

[00:10:49] and from a certain feeling

[00:10:51] then I play out my head

[00:10:52] because that theory is there

[00:10:53] in practice

[00:10:54] and I choose to

[00:10:57] I don't play for anyone

[00:10:59] and the second thing

[00:11:02] that sounds very bizarre

[00:11:03] I have let everything go

[00:11:05] so a few people have that podium

[00:11:07] and I'm not even focusing

[00:11:09] on Mixolydian, Dorian

[00:11:11] Chromatica

[00:11:13] it doesn't matter anymore

[00:11:14] it's in there

[00:11:16] that I let it go

[00:11:18] because I do it theoretically

[00:11:20] and you can see

[00:11:22] that you automatically

[00:11:23] are playing on the throne

[00:11:25] that you constantly

[00:11:26] change the sound

[00:11:28] and that you always sound the same

[00:11:31] I don't know if you understand

[00:11:32] I always play the guitar

[00:11:34] when we rehearse

[00:11:35] and the first thing you do is

[00:11:37] play a licks or a riff

[00:11:38] that's always the same

[00:11:40] and that's what I'm talking about

[00:11:44] and from there

[00:11:45] I'm also going to say

[00:11:46] as my question is

[00:11:47] is it really hard

[00:11:51] to let it go

[00:11:54] and do it

[00:11:55] and I feel lighter

[00:11:56] I do it

[00:11:57] but of course

[00:11:58] because you play the guitar

[00:12:00] you know

[00:12:04] that in a rehearsal

[00:12:05] or on a rehearsal

[00:12:07] for example

[00:12:08] that it feels completely different

[00:12:10] because there's audience

[00:12:11] the sound is different

[00:12:13] the setting of the musicians are different

[00:12:15] the sound is different

[00:12:18] there are a lot of parameters

[00:12:20] that are uncontrollable

[00:12:21] but I have only a mindset

[00:12:23] we're going to play here

[00:12:24] and we're going to see everything that's in there

[00:12:27] and it's not always like that

[00:12:29] and that's just to do it

[00:12:32] that you just accept that it's not perfect

[00:12:33] but come with your foot on the ground

[00:12:35] and if it doesn't come with your foot

[00:12:37] on the ground

[00:12:37] then you're done

[00:12:40] and you're fucked up

[00:12:41] and next day there's a new day

[00:12:44] and that's the most emotional

[00:12:45] I think there are many parallels

[00:12:48] or many similarities

[00:12:49] you can go very deep in the theory

[00:12:52] because you have to feel it

[00:12:54] and you have to adapt to your style

[00:12:55] and you can integrate in a certain way

[00:12:58] and I think for example

[00:13:00] you know Jorak van den Bosch

[00:13:01] he's an introvert

[00:13:02] also a guitarist

[00:13:04] also by Roderick van Theaalba

[00:13:05] but he has a very different style

[00:13:07] I have a pretty technical

[00:13:10] he calls it shredding style

[00:13:12] that's typical of the 80s

[00:13:14] and I have a little pop

[00:13:17] I have a little jazz in my mind

[00:13:19] and he has

[00:13:21] he has a lot of effects

[00:13:23] and a lot of noise

[00:13:25] and that's a very sound-scape

[00:13:26] that's a very different way

[00:13:28] of playing the guitar

[00:13:30] and that's right

[00:13:31] with the styles

[00:13:32] you have to take a certain thing

[00:13:33] to experiment that theory

[00:13:36] to blend it

[00:13:37] and to feel if it fits you

[00:13:39] you also hear

[00:13:42] in the I.I. things

[00:13:45] about your styles

[00:13:46] I have it and I used to feel weak

[00:13:49] I can't do that

[00:13:50] but I know something

[00:13:50] and especially on a stage

[00:13:53] I would have to give it a show

[00:13:56] a show or a performance

[00:13:57] you can do the theory

[00:13:58] but you expect a performance

[00:14:00] it's boring

[00:14:01] you can't just look at it

[00:14:04] there is a performance

[00:14:06] because I want to trigger

[00:14:07] the message

[00:14:09] that you call it

[00:14:10] what emotional touch

[00:14:11] and I can't do that

[00:14:14] if I see the man

[00:14:15] I can call him Alex

[00:14:18] and he starts to tell

[00:14:19] about the things

[00:14:20] about the emails

[00:14:21] and the spams

[00:14:22] I think

[00:14:24] we agree that we disagree

[00:14:27] and I find that

[00:14:29] in my own way

[00:14:30] and sometimes it's lost

[00:14:31] I think some sea level people would vomit

[00:14:35] if you would receive that kind of mail

[00:14:37] that was the trigger on me to bubble

[00:14:38] but he is not in the slightest

[00:14:40] I have a lot of people

[00:14:41] who thought they would come

[00:14:43] and ask me

[00:14:44] how do I do that

[00:14:44] because it doesn't work

[00:14:45] I have so many people who ask

[00:14:47] and everyone says the same

[00:14:49] it doesn't work

[00:14:51] and then my point is

[00:14:53] take what works for you

[00:14:54] and feel

[00:14:56] and adjust

[00:14:57] and keep doing it

[00:14:59] for the rest of your life

[00:15:01] you are not sitting there

[00:15:04] thinking about the work

[00:15:05] and you are not working

[00:15:06] for example

[00:15:07] and now we are talking about the human

[00:15:11] human

[00:15:16] sales pitch

[00:15:18] we help sales with sales pitch

[00:15:20] that's first of all

[00:15:22] I just want to get it

[00:15:23] sales pitch

[00:15:26] and I know

[00:15:27] energetically it's not what you mean

[00:15:31] I think you understand

[00:15:32] that you value the creativity

[00:15:34] of the environment

[00:15:36] and I also understand

[00:15:37] that you need to get something

[00:15:38] from where we sell

[00:15:40] but before that

[00:15:42] did you study engineering

[00:15:46] did you have a web developer

[00:15:47] at ML6

[00:15:48] in machine learning

[00:15:50] what you call AI

[00:15:52] do you feel like starting your own business

[00:15:55] why

[00:15:56] why do you have

[00:15:59] the difficult side of life

[00:16:02] as a entrepreneur

[00:16:03] that's also the most interesting

[00:16:04] and the most creative

[00:16:06] and the most fun side of life

[00:16:09] I think I've always been very passionate

[00:16:11] about creating things

[00:16:13] and putting something in the world

[00:16:15] and creating creative work

[00:16:17] with people to create something

[00:16:19] that comes before music

[00:16:21] but I've often painted

[00:16:23] and worked creatively after that

[00:16:25] and I always had the idea

[00:16:27] that I wanted to set up something

[00:16:28] or put something in the world

[00:16:30] and I think I've studied

[00:16:32] when I started to get

[00:16:34] even before the whole AI hype

[00:16:35] and always been very interested

[00:16:37] in being aware of everything

[00:16:40] and how it works and a bit of philosophy

[00:16:42] and for me it was always

[00:16:43] the closest thing we could get

[00:16:46] is artificial intelligence

[00:16:49] where does it go

[00:16:50] and how does it look

[00:16:51] and I was looking for

[00:16:54] where is the place

[00:16:55] after my studies where I can

[00:16:57] learn the fastest

[00:16:57] and at that moment it was ML6

[00:17:01] then also Data Tonic

[00:17:02] a company of four or five men

[00:17:04] but they really were on that edge

[00:17:05] of what they could do with artificial intelligence

[00:17:08] so that's where we started working

[00:17:10] as a fifth employer

[00:17:11] and grew up with that company

[00:17:13] and very quickly fell in love

[00:17:15] with Puycer as much as possible

[00:17:16] with that technology

[00:17:16] what can we do with that

[00:17:18] but also quickly felt

[00:17:20] I want to take something

[00:17:21] and I'm not sure

[00:17:26] I don't know where

[00:17:27] the drive

[00:17:29] or your do's or sisters

[00:17:30] no I don't know

[00:17:33] that's in me

[00:17:35] and your parents stimulated

[00:17:37] to say

[00:17:38] they didn't say

[00:17:40] I was standing with them

[00:17:42] I was really like

[00:17:43] post war

[00:17:45] sort of a deft job

[00:17:46] with the Proximus

[00:17:47] sorry Fabrice Duvint

[00:17:49] that's safe, I tried

[00:17:51] because we were teachers

[00:17:52] you shouldn't do that

[00:17:55] I quickly got started

[00:17:57] and that was

[00:18:00] that was

[00:18:02] they were not happy

[00:18:04] at all

[00:18:05] very long it lasted

[00:18:06] also the guitar

[00:18:08] the guitar path

[00:18:10] is also

[00:18:11] that sounds so hard

[00:18:13] they were happy

[00:18:17] but

[00:18:18] that was

[00:18:20] not the best

[00:18:21] we think this is life

[00:18:24] that makes you happy

[00:18:25] through a lot of life

[00:18:26] while creating it is always a bit risky

[00:18:30] Melon a bit

[00:18:31] I think my parents supported this

[00:18:34] and also realized

[00:18:35] that

[00:18:35] you can't

[00:18:38] forbid someone

[00:18:41] they have to figure it out

[00:18:43] on their own

[00:18:44] so that was always a support

[00:18:47] no

[00:18:48] so from

[00:18:51] ms6 we started

[00:18:52] we had a problem with ms6

[00:18:54] initially it was mainly

[00:18:56] focused on the process of

[00:18:57] I had to make a sales pitch

[00:18:59] and a proposal for clients

[00:19:01] that was a slide deck in consulting

[00:19:02] that you have to put together

[00:19:04] early in my sales career

[00:19:07] that was the way to sell

[00:19:09] but you also sold it to ms6

[00:19:11] not to clients?

[00:19:12] in the beginning we did everything

[00:19:14] as a 5th or 6th worker

[00:19:17] they are now also free

[00:19:19] so it wasn't just programming

[00:19:21] but they also saw that

[00:19:22] I got energy from my client

[00:19:23] to think about what is possible with that technology

[00:19:26] how do you do it today

[00:19:27] and then my story

[00:19:29] and a bit of vision will be created

[00:19:30] and I feel that I really get a lot of energy from that

[00:19:33] so from there

[00:19:35] we started with human

[00:19:36] initially another problem

[00:19:38] that we solved

[00:19:39] what we also experienced

[00:19:41] our share point for our Google Drive

[00:19:43] a lot of presentations

[00:19:45] proposals that we made in the past

[00:19:47] there is nothing more to it

[00:19:49] also with AI we can make sure

[00:19:51] that you can look more efficiently

[00:19:52] and then you can look for a new center

[00:19:52] that is a knowledge assistance

[00:19:55] what we call the Retrieval Augmented

[00:19:57] the Rack Case Techniques

[00:20:00] exactly, it always evolved

[00:20:01] but with us, it was done

[00:20:03] and there are always companies

[00:20:05] who use that product

[00:20:06] just connect it in your field

[00:20:10] that's the most important case

[00:20:11] and that solved

[00:20:13] with very nice technology

[00:20:14] very nice user experience

[00:20:16] that in presentations

[00:20:17] you go to the right slides

[00:20:18] and then you can combine them quickly

[00:20:21] and there is a nice attraction

[00:20:24] but mainly in the consulting world

[00:20:26] and also on the use case

[00:20:27] of sales because there is the biggest P&E

[00:20:30] if you spend three on a proposal

[00:20:32] they are often not billable

[00:20:33] as a consultant

[00:20:34] so that makes a business case fast

[00:20:36] but then I say via

[00:20:38] on new networks

[00:20:40] is very important

[00:20:43] to get into the sales

[00:20:44] to get into the business

[00:20:46] in that more traditional world

[00:20:48] is that so?

[00:20:50] I know

[00:20:51] that really helped us

[00:20:53] with the right people

[00:20:55] to inspire and then ask

[00:20:57] I see that you know that person

[00:20:59] we think that you can help that person

[00:21:00] but how do you do that

[00:21:03] on a network?

[00:21:04] I have one co-founder

[00:21:07] who was also very good

[00:21:09] in the network event

[00:21:11] so that network events

[00:21:12] events and via

[00:21:14] people who already know

[00:21:15] to ask your family

[00:21:18] people who are already from you

[00:21:20] look, you can introduce me there

[00:21:22] and then indeed they can translate energy

[00:21:23] that can be passionate about

[00:21:26] what you solve

[00:21:27] then further the sales pitch

[00:21:30] and with the slide tech

[00:21:31] connect to that feeling

[00:21:33] why do we do this

[00:21:34] and why is that important

[00:21:35] and so people can engage more

[00:21:39] what I feel about you

[00:21:40] is that you use certain terms

[00:21:43] that are not classic

[00:21:44] for the typical engineering profile

[00:21:47] talking about connecting

[00:21:49] talking about feeling

[00:21:50] talking about emotions

[00:21:51] talking about being conscious

[00:21:54] it seems like

[00:21:56] you are already very deep

[00:21:58] in your work

[00:21:59] with why you are here

[00:22:01] what you are doing here

[00:22:02] and that you realize

[00:22:04] that you are part of a big group

[00:22:07] and that it will certainly not work

[00:22:10] with short term

[00:22:12] think pushing

[00:22:13] and yes, a thing that no one says

[00:22:17] and is that right

[00:22:18] or is that wrong?

[00:22:20] I think a lot about

[00:22:22] that matter

[00:22:23] and I believe a lot

[00:22:24] there are many aspects in that question

[00:22:29] there are many aspects

[00:22:30] of why you are here

[00:22:32] what do you want to do

[00:22:33] if you are 80 years old

[00:22:34] and you are at rest

[00:22:35] what memory do you want to bring

[00:22:37] or create

[00:22:38] because then it is too late

[00:22:39] if you have to make your memory

[00:22:40] then it is too late

[00:22:42] so those are things that

[00:22:44] motivate me

[00:22:45] and also fear in the face

[00:22:47] of whether we are doing it

[00:22:57] rather than now

[00:22:58] we are just on the right path

[00:23:00] and we are working hard

[00:23:01] but that is a fire in her mind

[00:23:03] we are going for it

[00:23:05] and we will continue

[00:23:06] but you are more into your business

[00:23:10] yes, it is more than business

[00:23:11] I am also going to music or

[00:23:13] what about you?

[00:23:15] what you created in the world

[00:23:17] and what kind of stamp you are printing

[00:23:19] that is something

[00:23:20] can you send it a part

[00:23:23] you can send it a lot

[00:23:23] but there is a lot

[00:23:24] not control at all

[00:23:27] at some point

[00:23:28] just to let go

[00:23:31] yes

[00:23:32] accept that you are always

[00:23:34] in fear

[00:23:34] and accept that

[00:23:38] in your number 2 of the BINNA 300 podcast

[00:23:41] that you had on the phone

[00:23:42] no, the podcast

[00:23:43] I have a recent one

[00:23:45] but I think it is a bit too much

[00:23:51] how old are you now?

[00:23:52] 30

[00:23:54] I will have a flight

[00:23:56] yes

[00:23:58] yes

[00:24:00] I mean, do you have any f**kups

[00:24:02] but you don't know what the outcome is

[00:24:05] I mean

[00:24:07] because you are so young

[00:24:08] I think it is important

[00:24:09] that you feel

[00:24:10] or that you are fit

[00:24:12] or that it is really one thing

[00:24:14] that you come here to do

[00:24:15] I think it is a good idea

[00:24:17] what do you think of that

[00:24:19] yes

[00:24:20] you are turning around

[00:24:25] learning

[00:24:26] feeling

[00:24:27] and from my 9 years of experience

[00:24:29] is something I have to learn

[00:24:31] and still learn

[00:24:32] even more from feelings

[00:24:35] less than that as a child

[00:24:37] so it is a

[00:24:38] a tension

[00:24:40] I didn't know

[00:24:43] I was only 30

[00:24:44] I didn't know I was 40

[00:24:47] so yes, it is fantastic

[00:24:48] that you want to know and you want to adapt

[00:24:50] then you don't just make it smart

[00:24:52] but especially wisdom

[00:24:53] it is the wisdom that makes you

[00:24:55] live a really meaningful life

[00:24:57] because I predict you will make everything

[00:24:59] and get what you want

[00:25:02] and then you will realize

[00:25:04] and now?

[00:25:07] what's next?

[00:25:10] is that something you feel

[00:25:11] or what do you feel?

[00:25:14] we are going to the music

[00:25:16] yes

[00:25:16] when you play music

[00:25:18] you will be a bit fired

[00:25:20] as a band, what do you want to do?

[00:25:22] play a lot

[00:25:23] play big, big on the train

[00:25:25] what do you often do?

[00:25:29] what is it?

[00:25:31] 100, 200, 300, 4000, 5000, 10,000

[00:25:34] and then you will be

[00:25:35] over the world

[00:25:36] I have seen David Upreuk

[00:25:38] see Eric

[00:25:38] that guy

[00:25:40] what do you mean?

[00:25:43] but you also learn from him

[00:25:46] that he also made it

[00:25:47] and that there was a lot of performance

[00:25:49] and performance

[00:25:50] and that he

[00:25:54] doesn't even play so many guitars

[00:25:55] that I sometimes think

[00:25:57] I will have to change the podcast

[00:25:59] and you get a good sound

[00:26:02] of music by

[00:26:03] just doing

[00:26:05] that while he is in content

[00:26:06] with his sales consulting

[00:26:08] or leadership or expert role

[00:26:09] that he is currently doing

[00:26:13] so while I

[00:26:14] now

[00:26:16] I have to say

[00:26:17] I really appreciate the charm

[00:26:19] of acoustic guitar

[00:26:22] with playing a role

[00:26:24] on a train

[00:26:26] and being in public

[00:26:28] of course not so much in music

[00:26:30] because there are three hours

[00:26:34] of training for an ego

[00:26:35] that you say

[00:26:37] I do learn

[00:26:39] that it doesn't stop

[00:26:42] that drink more

[00:26:44] until at some point

[00:26:45] that the other thing will break

[00:26:46] relationships

[00:26:49] never to be too close

[00:26:50] social connections etc

[00:26:53] it just doesn't stop

[00:26:55] you always want more

[00:26:57] what else do we have to do?

[00:26:59] how far do you have to go

[00:27:00] to learn the Las Vegas

[00:27:02] for millions of people

[00:27:03] even that won't be good enough

[00:27:05] and out of what those documentaries are

[00:27:07] from the real rock stars

[00:27:09] I say Robbie Williams and Moby

[00:27:11] you know Moby

[00:27:12] you know those documentaries

[00:27:14] he is in his life

[00:27:16] I haven't seen him

[00:27:18] but I know his life

[00:27:20] because that time he really was lying

[00:27:22] drunk alcohol when he was on the top

[00:27:25] in New York on the street

[00:27:27] and that's really

[00:27:29] the only thing that he will go away

[00:27:31] and what you actually

[00:27:33] because of

[00:27:34] the lack of love for the elderly

[00:27:36] or what kind of trauma there is

[00:27:37] that has a huge willpower

[00:27:41] to put something in the world

[00:27:43] to realize that he is

[00:27:45] in those little things

[00:27:46] he is now back to basics

[00:27:48] he is in his own house

[00:27:49] all of his own works

[00:27:51] that's a bit of a meditast

[00:27:57] but that's really important

[00:27:58] because out of the bounds

[00:28:00] you are now

[00:28:00] and you are so focused on that goal

[00:28:03] that goal doesn't exist

[00:28:04] but that's your goal

[00:28:05] I can see you Nicolas

[00:28:07] I made my exit

[00:28:09] enjoy what you are doing

[00:28:11] with those guys who are standing around

[00:28:12] because you will never forget

[00:28:13] and then we will see

[00:28:15] what I mean

[00:28:18] what I get my energy from

[00:28:20] together with the people

[00:28:21] who are standing behind

[00:28:23] and that feels like

[00:28:24] they are working together

[00:28:28] but it's also a pleasure

[00:28:29] to be part of

[00:28:32] trips abroad

[00:28:33] and that's the memory you look back on

[00:28:35] in those moments

[00:28:37] I will stay with you

[00:28:39] I am 20 years old

[00:28:40] and I have been doing that

[00:28:41] because it's all so great

[00:28:44] it's the mix between

[00:28:46] the economic reality

[00:28:47] of course

[00:28:49] and now you look back

[00:28:52] I have been working with

[00:28:54] humans for 5 years

[00:28:55] and if we start

[00:28:58] based on the wisdom

[00:28:59] and knowledge you have

[00:29:00] what would be better

[00:29:02] would be a bigger market

[00:29:04] faster sales

[00:29:06] would be the same role

[00:29:08] that you have

[00:29:08] what would be faster

[00:29:11] and you can validate it

[00:29:12] I think that's where it all starts

[00:29:15] what is the problem

[00:29:17] that you solve in the world

[00:29:19] and for who

[00:29:20] and how specific you can be

[00:29:22] and they are ready to pay for that

[00:29:24] they are ready to pay for that

[00:29:25] that's where it all starts

[00:29:27] now you have asked three basic questions

[00:29:30] that's it

[00:29:32] until you solved that

[00:29:35] and validated it

[00:29:36] you don't have to go to investments

[00:29:37] go to donations

[00:29:38] don't focus on anything else

[00:29:41] besides me

[00:29:42] who is my target customer

[00:29:44] where is he from Wacker

[00:29:45] and would you pay for that

[00:29:47] not necessarily for my solution

[00:29:48] but to solve that problem

[00:29:49] and can I then build a solution

[00:29:51] that is elegant

[00:29:52] that can be put in the market

[00:29:56] not from the solution

[00:29:57] but from who can I help

[00:30:01] that's what I think

[00:30:05] that's what I think

[00:30:07] you do have a lot of money

[00:30:10] that's running

[00:30:10] and a business trip

[00:30:12] or a few runs

[00:30:13] but the power

[00:30:17] to start

[00:30:18] is that you can start

[00:30:21] all the way

[00:30:21] how we now

[00:30:24] validated the second version

[00:30:27] is with a slide deck

[00:30:29] my story

[00:30:30] in the customer

[00:30:32] we talked about his pain

[00:30:33] talked about where he wanted to go

[00:30:35] the ambition

[00:30:36] the sales story

[00:30:39] well done

[00:30:40] and the solution was just four slides

[00:30:43] look, this problem with your solution

[00:30:45] and we noticed that

[00:30:46] if my sales team could be supported

[00:30:49] to go to the customer

[00:30:51] then I should have it

[00:30:53] so we sold already

[00:30:54] pilots or tests

[00:30:56] just based on four or five slides

[00:30:58] and then

[00:30:59] it was clear to us

[00:31:01] that we should start

[00:31:02] because there is never life in the market

[00:31:06] what is a completely different way

[00:31:09] many buyers

[00:31:11] many efficiency

[00:31:11] you can retire much faster

[00:31:12] I have an idea, I have vision

[00:31:15] we are going to build it

[00:31:16] and then I will look for my market

[00:31:18] or I have a vague idea

[00:31:19] until you react, 90% of people do

[00:31:22] the second way

[00:31:23] and never again

[00:31:26] that is my biggest learning

[00:31:30] that is for me

[00:31:31] I have been in a park

[00:31:32] to come to Fowl der Steen

[00:31:35] with something like that

[00:31:37] and I am going to go with

[00:31:38] Winsum Passie

[00:31:41] but there was a

[00:31:42] TAM, target addressable market

[00:31:45] you can be interested

[00:31:47] but for me

[00:31:48] the question I just said

[00:31:50] is ready for that to be paid

[00:31:51] so how hard

[00:31:53] or how painful does that problem

[00:31:55] you can have a certain pain

[00:31:58] we can make a post about it

[00:32:00] the difference is a pain and a problem

[00:32:02] a pain that keeps getting stuck

[00:32:04] will really be a problem

[00:32:05] at certain moments

[00:32:06] and how hard is it to accept

[00:32:09] that it is a problem

[00:32:09] and are you ready

[00:32:12] to find a solution for that problem

[00:32:14] and then pay for it

[00:32:18] then for me it is a nice to have product

[00:32:24] I am talking about B2B

[00:32:25] I am talking about B2B

[00:32:27] I think the biggest learning

[00:32:29] is

[00:32:30] a company that doesn't buy a solution

[00:32:32] it is one person

[00:32:34] who sells a company

[00:32:37] what it is like

[00:32:40] starting up scale

[00:32:41] trying to solve

[00:32:42] ideally there is one use case

[00:32:44] and how you define a use case

[00:32:46] and that you can do it in that scale

[00:32:47] you can position it in the market

[00:32:49] what do you say

[00:32:51] you sell only one person

[00:32:53] no, you sell one use case

[00:32:55] as I have always said

[00:32:56] and how you define a use case

[00:32:58] that is

[00:32:58] you have the context

[00:33:00] you have the ICP

[00:33:03] your persona, who you sell

[00:33:05] the ideal customer profile

[00:33:08] and within B2B

[00:33:11] it is not just that we sell to Telco

[00:33:13] no, a telco doesn't buy

[00:33:14] no, you sell to the CIO

[00:33:17] the COO

[00:33:18] the plant manager

[00:33:21] then the share comes

[00:33:23] the user

[00:33:24] versus the buyer

[00:33:26] that is it

[00:33:27] because the user is not the one who has the scale

[00:33:30] exactly

[00:33:32] so you have to know all two

[00:33:34] how

[00:33:35] but you want to solve one use case

[00:33:37] for example

[00:33:39] we sell to salesmen

[00:33:42] but I have millions of salesmen

[00:33:45] different

[00:33:47] we sell to B2C

[00:33:49] we go through

[00:33:49] we are in Telco B2B

[00:33:51] is it transactional?

[00:33:53] is it more millions deals

[00:33:55] Telco one sells something different

[00:33:57] than your consulting behind a project

[00:33:59] so that's where it all begins

[00:34:01] what type of person

[00:34:04] within what type of company

[00:34:06] which use case you want to try

[00:34:09] and the use case will specifically say

[00:34:10] ok, you have

[00:34:12] a job to bidon

[00:34:14] and a task that you want to carry out

[00:34:16] as sales

[00:34:17] with us is your sales pitch

[00:34:19] again, that's a broad concept

[00:34:21] but I have to go to the customer

[00:34:23] and I have to prepare that customer

[00:34:25] for the meeting

[00:34:26] how do you do that today?

[00:34:30] some salesmen

[00:34:33] were there

[00:34:34] the steps how they do it today

[00:34:36] were there the pain points

[00:34:38] the problems

[00:34:39] and now we can solve that

[00:34:41] the one use case that you have to get

[00:34:44] that for every person

[00:34:47] who sells against it

[00:34:48] who does it exactly the same way

[00:34:50] the same pain

[00:34:51] and also the urgency

[00:34:53] of here you have to do something

[00:34:55] and pay for that

[00:34:57] but it's not like that

[00:34:59] what he

[00:35:03] says now

[00:35:03] is the sales pitch that you have

[00:35:05] to do it

[00:35:05] that's going to be a good transaction

[00:35:09] what does that mean

[00:35:12] the salesman

[00:35:13] the salesman

[00:35:15] it mainly gives the impression

[00:35:16] that the product is sold

[00:35:17] because it's a transaction

[00:35:20] and transaction means

[00:35:22] that you can easily

[00:35:25] replace it with someone else

[00:35:27] I have a telco line

[00:35:28] then there's something in assumption

[00:35:30] that I'm going to take

[00:35:31] and do you want to say that

[00:35:35] they come in

[00:35:37] with a product

[00:35:38] on a slide deck

[00:35:40] it's so much

[00:35:41] and with this shortening of the month

[00:35:42] it's so much

[00:35:43] how you go down there

[00:35:45] after

[00:35:46] what you do with your customers

[00:35:48] is create a situation

[00:35:50] a situation

[00:35:51] I'm going to discuss

[00:35:53] whether there are situations

[00:35:55] what often

[00:35:57] a problem is that

[00:35:58] at the same companies

[00:36:00] plays it also plays with you

[00:36:02] and when you try to

[00:36:03] solve it

[00:36:04] is that a transition that you help

[00:36:07] yes, it's the next thing

[00:36:10] on top of that

[00:36:10] we looked at

[00:36:11] within what type of

[00:36:13] sales organization

[00:36:13] is the biggest pain

[00:36:15] because all sales organizations

[00:36:16] can't solve

[00:36:17] so you have to first look

[00:36:18] where you are

[00:36:19] at the initial focus point

[00:36:21] and with us

[00:36:22] we are in

[00:36:22] the next

[00:36:24] types of companies

[00:36:26] one

[00:36:26] they sell it

[00:36:29] and

[00:36:29] they are in a competitive market

[00:36:32] but you want to say

[00:36:32] if I come in with my product

[00:36:34] and my competitor

[00:36:35] comes in with the same

[00:36:37] there is a price to compete

[00:36:39] so what is important

[00:36:40] that you as sales

[00:36:41] an expert

[00:36:42] is in the business of your customer

[00:36:43] that he can adjust

[00:36:44] your value proposition

[00:36:45] based on the needs of the customer

[00:36:47] that you can make

[00:36:48] the difference

[00:36:49] so that's the competitive market

[00:36:51] that we see more and more

[00:36:52] everywhere

[00:36:53] that's one aspect

[00:36:55] second aspect

[00:36:56] where it becomes even more difficult

[00:36:57] for sales

[00:36:58] is if you don't sell it

[00:36:59] to one power segment

[00:37:00] but to different types

[00:37:02] stakeholders within the company

[00:37:03] different types of

[00:37:05] industry

[00:37:06] because then

[00:37:07] if you have to be an expert

[00:37:08] in the business of the customer

[00:37:09] you shouldn't know

[00:37:09] one industry

[00:37:10] and one type of buyer

[00:37:11] but you have to know

[00:37:13] 10

[00:37:14] and every talk

[00:37:15] is completely different

[00:37:16] and that context

[00:37:17] to build for a sales

[00:37:18] is very difficult

[00:37:19] in that context

[00:37:20] and then the last aspect

[00:37:22] is often

[00:37:23] if you don't sell

[00:37:24] one product

[00:37:25] but you have

[00:37:26] 10 or 15 or 20 or 100

[00:37:28] in every B2B

[00:37:30] IT services

[00:37:30] what's the possibility

[00:37:32] to be an expert

[00:37:32] and then it becomes

[00:37:34] very difficult for sales

[00:37:35] because if you enter

[00:37:36] and you say

[00:37:37] no expert in the business

[00:37:38] and in yourself

[00:37:40] then you lose your deal

[00:37:41] by competition

[00:37:41] but there is so much time

[00:37:43] to understand your customer

[00:37:44] and so much effort

[00:37:45] and energy

[00:37:46] that you are squeezed

[00:37:47] plus internally

[00:37:49] there is

[00:37:49] such a chaos

[00:37:50] such complexity

[00:37:51] to bring

[00:37:52] your offers to the customer

[00:37:54] that you are

[00:37:54] just lost

[00:37:55] and that's something we see now

[00:37:58] that's why we focus on

[00:37:59] IT services

[00:38:00] Telco

[00:38:01] that are in the transition

[00:38:02] from more telecom

[00:38:04] to IT services

[00:38:05] which is also a

[00:38:05] difficult thing

[00:38:06] a lot of professional

[00:38:07] services

[00:38:08] that are actually there

[00:38:09] so that's one of our

[00:38:11] big use cases

[00:38:12] sales in there

[00:38:13] will support

[00:38:13] to

[00:38:14] really push more

[00:38:15] from product

[00:38:16] to consultative selling

[00:38:17] from the customer

[00:38:18] and how

[00:38:20] how do you do it yourself

[00:38:22] your new customers

[00:38:24] are also based

[00:38:25] on a network

[00:38:27] what do you call it

[00:38:28] I know Sven your colleague

[00:38:29] CTO

[00:38:29] yes

[00:38:30] I do

[00:38:31] I call it

[00:38:33] yes hello

[00:38:33] Sven is good

[00:38:34] and I really thought

[00:38:35] Movent that's next

[00:38:37] I have a lot of

[00:38:38] admiration for

[00:38:39] then

[00:38:40] CTOs

[00:38:41] or whatever

[00:38:42] then they also

[00:38:43] go with it

[00:38:44] in the sales

[00:38:44] story

[00:38:45] to

[00:38:45] also for product

[00:38:49] market

[00:38:49] messaging

[00:38:51] exactly

[00:38:52] Sven is really

[00:38:53] really good

[00:38:53] and

[00:38:54] and I think there

[00:38:55] so we also use

[00:38:56] our own solution

[00:38:57] for that

[00:38:58] and that's the second

[00:39:00] big use case that we see

[00:39:01] you use your own

[00:39:01] solution for that too

[00:39:03] because the point is

[00:39:03] it takes five years

[00:39:04] then

[00:39:05] actually

[00:39:06] I don't know

[00:39:07] your source of data

[00:39:09] why you work

[00:39:10] is not so big

[00:39:12] I think

[00:39:12] then I

[00:39:13] when I

[00:39:14] from a startup

[00:39:14] can you

[00:39:15] have a solution

[00:39:15] because there are

[00:39:16] not really

[00:39:16] many data sources

[00:39:18] based on

[00:39:19] the slide shows

[00:39:20] that are already there

[00:39:21] you do have

[00:39:22] market information

[00:39:23] can ask

[00:39:23] sector

[00:39:24] then I take

[00:39:24] or is that wrong

[00:39:26] I think what that

[00:39:28] earlier indeed

[00:39:29] you used to

[00:39:30] had historical data

[00:39:32] needed to train

[00:39:33] I think

[00:39:33] what is now happening

[00:39:34] with the wave

[00:39:35] of generative

[00:39:36] AI

[00:39:37] chatchapity

[00:39:38] and the

[00:39:38] below

[00:39:39] they are

[00:39:40] trained

[00:39:41] on all the information

[00:39:42] we have

[00:39:43] public

[00:39:44] we don't see it

[00:39:46] as a

[00:39:47] for-sale model

[00:39:48] also a

[00:39:49] given to

[00:39:49] predict what

[00:39:51] comes out

[00:39:51] the next word

[00:39:52] or write me that text

[00:39:53] that's typical

[00:39:54] we have

[00:39:56] I

[00:39:56] early on

[00:39:58] two versions

[00:39:59] ago

[00:39:59] I realize

[00:40:01] that

[00:40:02] that will be models

[00:40:03] that really

[00:40:03] can think

[00:40:03] as a person

[00:40:04] who really

[00:40:05] understand

[00:40:06] there is no question

[00:40:07] of predict

[00:40:08] the next

[00:40:09] but

[00:40:10] think

[00:40:10] as a person

[00:40:11] and give me

[00:40:12] an answer

[00:40:14] on my question

[00:40:15] and

[00:40:16] therefore

[00:40:17] I look

[00:40:17] if we look at

[00:40:19] the question

[00:40:20] sales

[00:40:21] what are you still

[00:40:22] sales

[00:40:22] to call it

[00:40:23] sales pitch

[00:40:24] to create

[00:40:25] sales

[00:40:26] actually what he does

[00:40:28] today

[00:40:28] one that

[00:40:29] knows his client

[00:40:30] everything that

[00:40:31] is in news

[00:40:32] and your report

[00:40:33] website

[00:40:33] has read everything

[00:40:34] two

[00:40:35] every conversation

[00:40:36] that

[00:40:36] was with the client

[00:40:37] he knows

[00:40:38] who he

[00:40:39] spoke to

[00:40:39] that's

[00:40:40] the CRM data

[00:40:42] but three

[00:40:43] I also know

[00:40:43] what we can

[00:40:45] as a company

[00:40:46] what are our products

[00:40:47] our services

[00:40:47] all our clients

[00:40:48] cases that we have ever

[00:40:49] talked about

[00:40:50] and what is our

[00:40:50] talk leadership content

[00:40:51] it has all that

[00:40:52] context in its head

[00:40:53] they are really

[00:40:54] top sales

[00:40:55] that's what you're talking about

[00:40:55] but we think

[00:40:56] of top sales

[00:40:57] we think

[00:40:57] of it

[00:40:58] and

[00:40:59] three

[00:41:00] is then

[00:41:00] okay

[00:41:00] I'm going

[00:41:01] with my client

[00:41:02] and I'm going

[00:41:03] depending on

[00:41:04] which stage

[00:41:05] we are sitting with

[00:41:06] that client

[00:41:06] is then

[00:41:07] a first conversation

[00:41:07] I'm actually going to

[00:41:09] consolidate all that

[00:41:09] knowledge

[00:41:11] in a good phone

[00:41:12] talk

[00:41:13] the right couple of questions

[00:41:14] the right trigger

[00:41:15] message

[00:41:15] a good outbound email

[00:41:17] is that

[00:41:18] my first

[00:41:18] talk with the client

[00:41:20] then I want to

[00:41:20] step in there

[00:41:21] with a few good

[00:41:22] references

[00:41:23] cases

[00:41:23] to tell

[00:41:25] with some good

[00:41:25] questions

[00:41:26] how that

[00:41:26] customer can trigger

[00:41:27] and

[00:41:28] in a later phase

[00:41:29] with a pinch deck

[00:41:30] on the size of that customer

[00:41:31] and what you see is

[00:41:32] that

[00:41:32] they take all that knowledge

[00:41:34] and they transform it

[00:41:35] into

[00:41:35] certain sales

[00:41:37] outputs

[00:41:37] that use a certain

[00:41:38] sales framework

[00:41:39] but always

[00:41:40] 100% personalized

[00:41:41] on the customer

[00:41:42] so for us

[00:41:43] that was a

[00:41:44] thought from

[00:41:45] what do you

[00:41:46] do with sales

[00:41:46] what does it do best

[00:41:47] where do you

[00:41:48] get that information

[00:41:49] because it's really like a

[00:41:51] spot on

[00:41:51] I'm going to tell you

[00:41:53] what you told me

[00:41:54] but I haven't

[00:41:54] told you much

[00:41:55] but you're telling me now

[00:41:56] we're going to break it

[00:41:57] and break it

[00:41:58] that's

[00:41:59] because

[00:42:00] for me

[00:42:00] there are some words

[00:42:01] between the one you

[00:42:02] read on LinkedIn

[00:42:04] and then you think

[00:42:04] yes

[00:42:05] but a lot of sales

[00:42:06] are sent

[00:42:07] because what you write

[00:42:08] is a part

[00:42:09] of

[00:42:10] what

[00:42:11] does it see

[00:42:11] reality

[00:42:12] I mean

[00:42:13] I think

[00:42:14] where are you

[00:42:14] this is

[00:42:16] a book

[00:42:17] from the US

[00:42:18] because it has

[00:42:18] culture

[00:42:19] but in the core

[00:42:22] that's

[00:42:23] I think

[00:42:24] what we did very deep

[00:42:25] and is really

[00:42:26] well understood

[00:42:27] fundamental

[00:42:27] what is sales

[00:42:29] but where do you

[00:42:29] do that

[00:42:30] do you want to

[00:42:30] bubble with people

[00:42:31] or

[00:42:31] we do it ourselves

[00:42:32] by

[00:42:33] doing

[00:42:33] by

[00:42:34] customers like

[00:42:35] a DPI media

[00:42:36] our customers

[00:42:37] with those sales teams

[00:42:38] to talk

[00:42:38] and understand

[00:42:39] how are you

[00:42:40] going to

[00:42:40] the customers

[00:42:41] what are

[00:42:42] there

[00:42:42] what is not

[00:42:44] done by

[00:42:52] themselves

[00:42:53] or

[00:42:53] or look at a part of the problem

[00:42:55] but look at

[00:42:56] what is the

[00:42:56] end to end problem

[00:42:57] and

[00:42:58] in the end

[00:42:58] sales around

[00:43:01] have a customer

[00:43:02] someone

[00:43:03] who has a lot of context

[00:43:04] around him

[00:43:05] everything that he

[00:43:06] once said

[00:43:06] everything that you know

[00:43:08] about the customer

[00:43:08] he can

[00:43:09] help the customer

[00:43:10] in many different ways

[00:43:11] but there is

[00:43:12] your portfolio

[00:43:13] what you offer

[00:43:13] and the best sales

[00:43:15] finds the match

[00:43:16] between the overlap

[00:43:17] between these two things

[00:43:18] and can then

[00:43:19] communicate

[00:43:20] in the way

[00:43:21] that the customer

[00:43:22] needs at that moment

[00:43:22] to come to the face

[00:43:24] and take the next step

[00:43:26] in his buying process

[00:43:29] so that is

[00:43:30] a little bit

[00:43:30] the

[00:43:31] underlying

[00:43:32] that we have had

[00:43:33] that is sales

[00:43:34] and then

[00:43:35] we have told

[00:43:36] how can we now

[00:43:37] adapt technology

[00:43:38] to make sure

[00:43:39] that sales

[00:43:41] can focus

[00:43:42] on what they do best

[00:43:42] and that

[00:43:43] everyone can

[00:43:44] bring to that level

[00:43:44] that they

[00:43:46] as you said

[00:43:47] the best sales

[00:43:48] can be

[00:43:48] and

[00:43:50] what we have seen today

[00:43:51] is that

[00:43:53] as sales

[00:43:54] if you

[00:43:55] do not come in

[00:43:56] to your customer

[00:43:57] and actually

[00:43:57] you have done the

[00:43:58] perfect preparation

[00:43:59] or what you have

[00:44:00] the first time

[00:44:01] you pick up the phone

[00:44:01] to do a call

[00:44:02] your email

[00:44:04] that you send

[00:44:04] or your first meeting

[00:44:05] and

[00:44:06] you actually have to

[00:44:07] bring all that

[00:44:07] context together

[00:44:08] and work with it

[00:44:11] but that

[00:44:11] costs

[00:44:13] a lot of time

[00:44:14] you have to read

[00:44:14] and there are

[00:44:15] seven different tools

[00:44:16] only to understand your customers

[00:44:17] LinkedIn

[00:44:18] and your reports

[00:44:19] website

[00:44:20] all the news articles

[00:44:21] and that is

[00:44:22] only the first part

[00:44:23] second

[00:44:24] often we also

[00:44:25] look at

[00:44:26] what do we offer as a company

[00:44:27] that is a share point

[00:44:28] that is

[00:44:30] marketing

[00:44:30] send me

[00:44:31] what content

[00:44:31] your product expert

[00:44:32] send me

[00:44:33] what presentations

[00:44:33] your pricing

[00:44:35] is outdated

[00:44:35] your brand

[00:44:37] is outdated

[00:44:38] so

[00:44:39] just know

[00:44:40] what it is

[00:44:41] like a company

[00:44:41] offer

[00:44:41] and what is

[00:44:43] accurate at any moment

[00:44:43] is

[00:44:44] impossible

[00:44:45] for sales

[00:44:46] and then

[00:44:47] from the sales leadership

[00:44:48] and there is

[00:44:49] your sales process

[00:44:50] you want

[00:44:50] that some steps

[00:44:51] followed

[00:44:52] but there is

[00:44:53] an excel

[00:44:53] or some

[00:44:54] documents

[00:44:54] or it will

[00:44:55] be outdated

[00:44:55] in a training

[00:44:56] and

[00:44:57] sales is also forgotten

[00:44:59] so

[00:44:59] I see that

[00:45:00] in the same way

[00:45:02] is doing their best

[00:45:03] effort

[00:45:03] but it is pressed

[00:45:04] between

[00:45:05] the customer who is more expected

[00:45:06] and the complexity

[00:45:08] of your sales process

[00:45:09] and what

[00:45:09] is going on

[00:45:09] so what we have done

[00:45:12] is said

[00:45:13] okay

[00:45:13] we are going to

[00:45:15] fundamentally solve

[00:45:16] with the new technology

[00:45:17] the large language models

[00:45:18] that are now

[00:45:19] and

[00:45:20] really look at the model

[00:45:21] not as something

[00:45:22] that can give me

[00:45:22] a nice texture

[00:45:22] but really

[00:45:23] can think with me

[00:45:25] and what does that mean

[00:45:27] what we

[00:45:28] actually do

[00:45:28] for sales

[00:45:29] is we build

[00:45:30] that whole

[00:45:31] context

[00:45:32] so we are going to

[00:45:33] all the data

[00:45:33] external data

[00:45:34] from a prospect

[00:45:35] to enter

[00:45:36] from that

[00:45:37] as a system

[00:45:38] second we are going to look at

[00:45:39] Bible

[00:45:40] babbled CRM notes

[00:45:42] transcripts

[00:45:42] system

[00:45:44] third is then

[00:45:44] what do we offer

[00:45:45] as a company

[00:45:46] that are your offers

[00:45:47] your cases

[00:45:48] all that information

[00:45:49] around it

[00:45:50] but pure in textual form

[00:45:52] so not in

[00:45:52] thousands of presentations

[00:45:53] that are outdated

[00:45:54] because they cannot

[00:45:55] be destroyed

[00:45:55] but pure

[00:45:56] just a list of

[00:45:57] these are our products

[00:45:58] this is a short description

[00:46:00] and then the last one is

[00:46:01] okay

[00:46:02] in what format

[00:46:03] do you want to

[00:46:03] output sales

[00:46:04] what asset do you need

[00:46:06] what is your sales pitch

[00:46:07] that you want

[00:46:08] and

[00:46:08] and then we click

[00:46:10] templates

[00:46:10] and what can it be

[00:46:11] actually an outbound

[00:46:13] email

[00:46:13] following this framework

[00:46:15] that first

[00:46:15] starts with a trigger

[00:46:16] then a good question

[00:46:17] what do you mean by

[00:46:18] framework

[00:46:18] do you mean

[00:46:19] the Challengers

[00:46:19] is that a framework

[00:46:20] that can

[00:46:21] a certain kind of

[00:46:23] a different

[00:46:26] outbound email

[00:46:27] a framework

[00:46:29] actually

[00:46:29] all sorts of

[00:46:30] sales assets

[00:46:31] in a template form

[00:46:33] that you can

[00:46:33] put in

[00:46:34] that clicks

[00:46:35] for our sales process

[00:46:36] and then

[00:46:37] is the great power

[00:46:38] that you as sales

[00:46:39] just have to say

[00:46:40] I have to go to that customer

[00:46:41] I'm sitting with that person

[00:46:42] together

[00:46:43] and the system

[00:46:43] puts everything on

[00:46:45] okay, you know

[00:46:45] about that customer

[00:46:46] I've already talked to them

[00:46:47] that are the most relevant

[00:46:49] offers and cases

[00:46:50] that you can take with you

[00:46:51] and you want it

[00:46:52] in a pitch deck

[00:46:52] okay, here you roll

[00:46:53] the pitch deck out

[00:46:54] with the slides

[00:46:55] in full

[00:46:56] personalized to that customer

[00:46:57] I do have a feeling

[00:46:58] that it's not 100%

[00:47:00] but that it's more

[00:47:02] a sales assistant

[00:47:03] I would say

[00:47:05] he always

[00:47:05] the human in the loop

[00:47:07] the human touch

[00:47:07] need for always

[00:47:08] that

[00:47:09] but otherwise

[00:47:10] you can go to a customer

[00:47:11] I'm

[00:47:12] exaggerating of course

[00:47:14] is that just my assumption

[00:47:16] or

[00:47:16] well I think

[00:47:17] that we

[00:47:18] could be 100% perfect

[00:47:19] today

[00:47:20] today it was

[00:47:21] 80%

[00:47:22] something like that

[00:47:23] and it really does

[00:47:24] that the quality

[00:47:24] per model release

[00:47:26] also

[00:47:26] gets even better

[00:47:28] and our goal

[00:47:30] and we really don't believe

[00:47:31] that you can replace sales

[00:47:33] because otherwise

[00:47:33] automated SDR

[00:47:35] emails

[00:47:35] will never work

[00:47:37] we don't believe in that

[00:47:38] what we do believe

[00:47:39] is that the quality

[00:47:40] of those models

[00:47:41] will be so high

[00:47:42] that they really

[00:47:42] all the preparation

[00:47:43] work

[00:47:44] will be perfect

[00:47:45] and that's what we see today

[00:47:47] for example

[00:47:48] we generate

[00:47:49] automatically

[00:47:49] a one slider

[00:47:50] for every one of your cases

[00:47:51] for example

[00:47:53] we have a voice

[00:47:54] and then

[00:47:55] what you see

[00:47:55] that system

[00:47:56] generates something super good

[00:47:57] then

[00:47:58] often people from marketing

[00:47:59] and product experts

[00:48:01] come

[00:48:01] yes but I want to

[00:48:02] adjust that

[00:48:02] and that's not

[00:48:03] technical enough

[00:48:04] and then we

[00:48:06] display those two versions

[00:48:06] of sales

[00:48:07] and sales says

[00:48:08] oh my

[00:48:08] this is really

[00:48:09] what we need

[00:48:09] and often

[00:48:10] model is better

[00:48:12] than the

[00:48:13] human touch factor

[00:48:14] because there

[00:48:14] is more

[00:48:15] technicality

[00:48:16] but that's because

[00:48:17] they

[00:48:17] are not

[00:48:18] from their

[00:48:18] brightness

[00:48:19] and they

[00:48:20] do not adjust

[00:48:20] in terms of value

[00:48:22] because they actually

[00:48:22] are

[00:48:23] with a customer

[00:48:23] exactly

[00:48:24] and so what you see

[00:48:25] there is

[00:48:26] that the models

[00:48:27] are really

[00:48:27] super strong

[00:48:28] and give

[00:48:29] consistency

[00:48:30] and control

[00:48:31] but it actually

[00:48:31] turns

[00:48:32] around for us

[00:48:33] that

[00:48:34] you as sales

[00:48:35] are super

[00:48:36] well prepared

[00:48:36] and fully trusted

[00:48:38] that

[00:48:38] I know my client

[00:48:39] I know

[00:48:40] everything that I'm going to tell

[00:48:41] what we can

[00:48:42] internally

[00:48:42] where is

[00:48:43] and that I do not

[00:48:43] start to find out

[00:48:44] or things

[00:48:45] that my solution expert

[00:48:46] can solve

[00:48:47] that I

[00:48:50] unbranded

[00:48:50] via marketing

[00:48:51] and that my ideal

[00:48:53] sales process

[00:48:53] follows

[00:48:54] and that

[00:48:55] you have

[00:48:55] as preparation

[00:48:56] but then

[00:48:56] still

[00:48:56] it turns

[00:48:57] around

[00:48:57] like

[00:48:58] that we

[00:48:58] would talk about

[00:48:59] the performance

[00:49:00] in the meeting

[00:49:01] that trust

[00:49:02] can build

[00:49:02] at the right moment

[00:49:04] at the right moment

[00:49:05] the right question

[00:49:06] and

[00:49:07] and how

[00:49:08] we feel

[00:49:09] that it

[00:49:10] is too much

[00:49:11] that it

[00:49:12] comes over

[00:49:12] and of course

[00:49:13] fits you

[00:49:13] and

[00:49:15] in my eyes

[00:49:16] that will not change

[00:49:17] that human to human

[00:49:18] that's where

[00:49:19] people

[00:49:19] certainly

[00:49:20] in complex

[00:49:21] B2B deals

[00:49:22] that is

[00:49:22] that

[00:49:22] remains

[00:49:23] crucial

[00:49:23] and

[00:49:25] that's

[00:49:26] how

[00:49:27] fits

[00:49:27] the gardener

[00:49:30] who says

[00:49:30] that

[00:49:36] B2B complex

[00:49:36] B2B

[00:49:39] companies

[00:49:40] actually

[00:49:40] they have

[00:49:44] already done information

[00:49:44] they have done research

[00:49:46] in combination

[00:49:47] and that

[00:49:48] I do

[00:49:48] a lot

[00:49:49] is peer review

[00:49:50] that there

[00:49:52] a lot

[00:49:52] yes

[00:49:55] that's

[00:49:55] a lot

[00:49:56] with peer review

[00:49:56] how do you do that

[00:49:58] how do you take it

[00:49:58] what do you do

[00:50:00] how do you fit

[00:50:01] in your mix

[00:50:03] in our mix

[00:50:05] fits in

[00:50:06] you understand

[00:50:06] you understand my question

[00:50:07] I understand your question

[00:50:08] that comes down

[00:50:09] the

[00:50:09] the luxury that we

[00:50:11] have already long seen

[00:50:12] buying expectations

[00:50:14] are changed

[00:50:15] and

[00:50:16] there comes

[00:50:16] a lot of salesman

[00:50:18] to the customer

[00:50:19] and he says

[00:50:19] you don't know

[00:50:21] the best customer

[00:50:21] you don't have information

[00:50:22] and now you're stupid

[00:50:23] and

[00:50:25] what that

[00:50:26] for us

[00:50:26] just want to say

[00:50:27] is that

[00:50:28] salesman

[00:50:29] even more

[00:50:30] the difference

[00:50:31] and with the difference

[00:50:32] we mean

[00:50:33] yes

[00:50:34] you are an

[00:50:35] experienced business

[00:50:36] of the customer

[00:50:36] and you can

[00:50:37] really

[00:50:37] get more in every touch

[00:50:38] point

[00:50:39] the time

[00:50:40] we will

[00:50:42] hang out

[00:50:43] and we will

[00:50:43] go to the coffee

[00:50:44] that's always important

[00:50:45] the relationship

[00:50:46] but the relationship

[00:50:46] alone

[00:50:47] without getting more

[00:50:48] that goes out

[00:50:49] but that's

[00:50:50] for years

[00:50:52] that's the

[00:50:53] whining and dining

[00:50:54] that's important

[00:50:56] it's back

[00:50:57] but there

[00:50:58] always have to be value

[00:50:59] and I also

[00:51:00] from some customers

[00:51:01] who say

[00:51:02] I'm going to

[00:51:03] go to the event

[00:51:03] just because it's a little

[00:51:05] thing

[00:51:05] I can really

[00:51:07] customer

[00:51:08] the customer

[00:51:09] the customer

[00:51:10] really

[00:51:10] say

[00:51:12] Peter

[00:51:13] but it's true

[00:51:14] at the end

[00:51:16] it's really about the value

[00:51:17] and

[00:51:17] the value is important

[00:51:18] because it's really

[00:51:19] about that value

[00:51:20] and if you can combine

[00:51:21] then

[00:51:22] it's really

[00:51:23] a lot of fun

[00:51:23] yes

[00:51:25] and it's what we

[00:51:26] for us

[00:51:27] the

[00:51:28] the more peer reviewed

[00:51:30] the more researched

[00:51:31] is just

[00:51:31] the buying expectations

[00:51:32] they only

[00:51:33] stay in

[00:51:34] and they also

[00:51:34] the trend

[00:51:35] for you as sales

[00:51:38] I think

[00:51:39] sales are the first

[00:51:40] contact

[00:51:41] that brands

[00:51:42] offer to my customer

[00:51:43] they often say

[00:51:44] marketing do the branding

[00:51:45] but it's sales

[00:51:45] in the field

[00:51:46] your brand

[00:51:47] to let you feel

[00:51:48] to your customer

[00:51:49] so

[00:51:49] even if you just

[00:51:51] try to get in

[00:51:51] my customer

[00:51:53] in the first

[00:51:54] at the embassy

[00:51:55] also in the first 30 seconds

[00:51:56] if he doesn't

[00:51:57] feel like

[00:51:57] he has done his homework

[00:51:59] he knows

[00:52:00] my business

[00:52:01] and knows

[00:52:01] where

[00:52:02] that value

[00:52:03] can bring

[00:52:03] and

[00:52:04] and that's

[00:52:05] a normal

[00:52:06] talk

[00:52:06] not in a pitch

[00:52:07] but in

[00:52:12] you say that

[00:52:12] that's where we see that

[00:52:14] and how

[00:52:15] how do you see that

[00:52:17] and how do you know

[00:52:18] that we do that

[00:52:18] also

[00:52:19] when I'm there

[00:52:20] also

[00:52:20] I also do

[00:52:23] he calls

[00:52:24] people

[00:52:24] just a person

[00:52:26] and

[00:52:26] the first thing

[00:52:27] he says

[00:52:28] Peter

[00:52:31] I did my homework

[00:52:32] I can tell

[00:52:33] what I know about you

[00:52:34] and just

[00:52:35] just like that

[00:52:35] I did my homework

[00:52:36] and then

[00:52:37] the fact

[00:52:37] that he says

[00:52:38] his spot

[00:52:38] it's linked to

[00:52:39] what we did

[00:52:40] and with other customers

[00:52:42] it's linked to

[00:52:43] how we can offer value

[00:52:43] and so

[00:52:45] booktimes, meetings

[00:52:46] with

[00:52:46] C-level

[00:52:47] with big customers

[00:52:48] plus I've seen him

[00:52:49] I've seen him work

[00:52:50] he has a very

[00:52:52] not salesy

[00:52:53] energy for him

[00:52:55] because

[00:52:55] communication

[00:52:56] is

[00:52:57] 80%, 60%

[00:52:59] non-verb

[00:52:59] what it actually

[00:53:00] is energy

[00:53:01] you feel that

[00:53:02] you feel someone's

[00:53:03] intention

[00:53:05] also

[00:53:06] it's unconscious

[00:53:08] you feel that

[00:53:09] what do you mean by that

[00:53:11] and so I know

[00:53:12] and that's because

[00:53:13] it's linked to

[00:53:15] the total

[00:53:15] that's not

[00:53:16] possible

[00:53:16] and

[00:53:18] I think it's interesting

[00:53:20] because

[00:53:21] he has

[00:53:21] something

[00:53:22] something very

[00:53:23] unarmed

[00:53:24] you always

[00:53:25] have something

[00:53:25] non-salesy

[00:53:26] what it actually

[00:53:28] makes you

[00:53:28] self

[00:53:30] but I think

[00:53:30] it doesn't turn

[00:53:31] around for me

[00:53:32] what it is

[00:53:33] a salesy

[00:53:35] typical outgoing person

[00:53:36] someone more

[00:53:37] reserved

[00:53:37] it turns around

[00:53:39] can you bring value

[00:53:40] to someone

[00:53:41] can you bring value

[00:53:42] to a customer

[00:53:42] that's really

[00:53:43] in the air

[00:53:43] I think that's something

[00:53:44] important

[00:53:45] and then

[00:53:46] just playing my guitar

[00:53:47] can fit in your style

[00:53:49] and

[00:53:49] actually

[00:53:50] when you look

[00:53:51] at

[00:53:52] guitarists

[00:53:52] who perform

[00:53:53] they have

[00:53:55] so many different

[00:53:56] who are you talking about

[00:53:57] who are you talking about

[00:53:59] who is that

[00:54:00] Jack White

[00:54:01] I think

[00:54:01] I think

[00:54:02] Supernice

[00:54:03] why?

[00:54:04] that smell

[00:54:05] that's in there

[00:54:06] Rawners

[00:54:07] I really think

[00:54:09] you made this

[00:54:10] a song by James Bond

[00:54:11] I think

[00:54:13] the combination

[00:54:13] with the Octavre

[00:54:14] and the Fuss

[00:54:15] with

[00:54:16] with

[00:54:17] Alicia Keys

[00:54:18] was that

[00:54:19] and I

[00:54:20] I think

[00:54:20] it's so cool

[00:54:21] that it's

[00:54:23] she brings that

[00:54:24] clean, that pop

[00:54:25] soft

[00:54:26] that combination

[00:54:26] and he brings

[00:54:28] something like

[00:54:29] wow

[00:54:29] and also with Beyoncé

[00:54:31] he has his

[00:54:32] I don't even know

[00:54:33] really

[00:54:33] and I think so

[00:54:35] because that

[00:54:36] that's a broken

[00:54:38] of a broken guitar

[00:54:39] that

[00:54:40] the airline

[00:54:40] later

[00:54:41] on gritch guitars

[00:54:43] play

[00:54:43] but with

[00:54:44] that combination

[00:54:45] with that

[00:54:46] that's

[00:54:46] quite simple

[00:54:48] only the delivery

[00:54:50] where

[00:54:50] you do that

[00:54:51] I can't

[00:54:52] I can

[00:54:53] play

[00:54:53] but the

[00:54:55] way

[00:54:55] you do that

[00:54:56] and how you

[00:54:57] thought about it

[00:54:59] because everybody thinks

[00:55:00] that bass guitar

[00:55:00] is a normal guitar

[00:55:01] and I don't know

[00:55:03] I think

[00:55:04] it's the delivery

[00:55:04] that's so

[00:55:05] I don't know

[00:55:06] it's also not

[00:55:07] how to say

[00:55:08] it doesn't feel

[00:55:09] perfect

[00:55:10] it's that

[00:55:11] that he

[00:55:11] that's the

[00:55:13] that's the

[00:55:13] that's the

[00:55:14] that's the

[00:55:14] that's the

[00:55:14] that's the

[00:55:15] that's the

[00:55:15] that's the

[00:55:15] that's the

[00:55:17] that's the

[00:55:19] that's the

[00:55:22] that's the

[00:55:23] I think that's also

[00:55:23] so

[00:55:23] but what I just

[00:55:25] want to say

[00:55:26] is that you have so many flavors in

[00:55:27] guitarists

[00:55:28] and at the same time

[00:55:29] different guitarists

[00:55:31] you can know

[00:55:31] I can do that

[00:55:32] as a child

[00:55:32] I can say that

[00:55:33] one more time

[00:55:34] a few times

[00:55:39] jimmy page

[00:55:40] I think

[00:55:40] and that's

[00:55:41] it might get loud

[00:55:42] of course

[00:55:43] with

[00:55:44] with the

[00:55:44] with

[00:55:47] that's

[00:55:47] how he

[00:55:48] starts playing

[00:55:49] and that's

[00:55:50] two

[00:55:51] young kids

[00:55:52] little children

[00:55:53] to the

[00:55:54] to the

[00:55:55] to the

[00:55:57] to the

[00:55:57] to the

[00:55:58] to the

[00:55:58] to the

[00:55:58] to the

[00:56:00] and that's

[00:56:01] that again

[00:56:02] is

[00:56:02] that

[00:56:03] you really

[00:56:04] play

[00:56:04] then

[00:56:05] you pull

[00:56:06] those

[00:56:07] those

[00:56:08] those

[00:56:09] those

[00:56:10] light

[00:56:11] between

[00:56:13] a

[00:56:13] and

[00:56:13] that

[00:56:15] micro tonale

[00:56:16] and you feel that

[00:56:17] it's not perfect

[00:56:18] while playing

[00:56:19] then

[00:56:19] and jimmy page

[00:56:21] was actually

[00:56:22] not so perfect

[00:56:23] sometimes

[00:56:23] call him sloppy

[00:56:25] timing

[00:56:26] that that again

[00:56:27] charmant

[00:56:27] I can

[00:56:29] I can

[00:56:29] the

[00:56:29] to the

[00:56:31] to the

[00:56:32] to the

[00:56:34] to the

[00:56:38] to the

[00:56:48] to the

[00:56:50] to come

[00:56:51] with

[00:56:52] have

[00:56:53] to

[00:56:56] to the

[00:56:57] take care

[00:56:58] den

[00:57:00] but

[00:57:02] The

[00:57:03] again

[00:57:05] Rihanna. I know a player named Coverta, Man of Boards.

[00:57:09] Yeah, yeah.

[00:57:10] Yeah, he's powerful, right?

[00:57:12] I also like the Ruben block of...

[00:57:16] That's how that...

[00:57:19] Yeah.

[00:57:21] Only...

[00:57:21] I tried to do it, but it didn't work.

[00:57:25] There's something about me that...

[00:57:27] I don't know.

[00:57:29] Yeah.

[00:57:29] I'm not going to do it because it's not me.

[00:57:32] Yeah, I get it.

[00:57:35] I'm a guitarist, actually.

[00:57:37] A lot more nonchalant.

[00:57:39] Much less than...

[00:57:41] That's really more on the feeling than on...

[00:57:44] Theorie or something like that, with guitars.

[00:57:47] So those type of guitarists I really like,

[00:57:50] from the Kills, you know what they are.

[00:57:53] I don't know their names anymore, but I think that's great.

[00:57:56] Just one...

[00:57:58] Yeah, electronic drum, and then just a rough guitar.

[00:58:01] And then also that poppy that's in between some of those songs.

[00:58:05] I think that's really great.

[00:58:08] And then Artic Mancys, always a good fan of what he's been.

[00:58:11] That's another style again, but...

[00:58:15] I've heard one song before, covered...

[00:58:18] I don't know them very well, I know a few songs.

[00:58:22] Yeah, I'm of course in another era.

[00:58:25] Where are you?

[00:58:26] But yeah, the D-Day helped me with that.

[00:58:29] But I'm actually missing everything.

[00:58:32] It sounds very strange what I'm going to say,

[00:58:34] but I'm really an 80's kid.

[00:58:37] So that means I'm confused about the...

[00:58:40] Yeah, I said, it even helps me a lot.

[00:58:43] I'm confused.

[00:58:45] The guitar solo, because I heard that when I was 8.

[00:58:49] Back to the Future, that film,

[00:58:51] where he flies off with the guitar.

[00:58:53] Yeah, that was for me all those...

[00:58:55] That was the...

[00:58:58] So I'm in combination with this whole little poppy.

[00:59:01] So Madonna, from the year before, not later.

[00:59:05] Duran Duran, Chick, Nal Roger.

[00:59:09] But everything is loose, maniac.

[00:59:13] In combination with Muse, Tomorello,

[00:59:19] Arranged Against the Machine, that's the year before Soundgarden.

[00:59:23] So I'm really...

[00:59:26] And then you come out on Fusion Jazz, Laurie Carlton,

[00:59:30] Django Reinhardt, Robyn Ford.

[00:59:33] What all the more complex...

[00:59:35] I'm not even sitting there.

[00:59:36] See?

[00:59:37] And so I'm like Jimmy Hendrix.

[00:59:39] Yeah, and I'm really in a bazaar together.

[00:59:42] So I'm really...

[00:59:43] I can go all poppy funky.

[00:59:46] And then I'm like, hi Gainzo.

[00:59:48] I can't remember the name, the pre-rehearsal.

[00:59:49] I'm playing the guitarist with the Skol,

[00:59:51] that I replaced someone in the morning Saturday.

[00:59:55] And I don't have a band with him.

[00:59:57] So I just get the audio and say,

[00:59:58] that soloist for you, that part-time, or something like that.

[01:00:01] And then it was like, yeah, last year,

[01:00:03] I was pretty hip, heavy metal on it.

[01:00:07] But now it's more like Jimmy Page.

[01:00:11] And because the Soundman put something like that,

[01:00:14] he was still seriously on blasts.

[01:00:16] And I had to play Sandra Kim,

[01:00:19] Jamal Avis, but I wasn't playing poppy.

[01:00:22] And I really like that.

[01:00:24] I like that...

[01:00:25] I like music too.

[01:00:27] You can play it very clean,

[01:00:30] very poppy, very complex,

[01:00:32] beautiful, zazang piano.

[01:00:35] And then you get that very full guitar.

[01:00:38] Yeah, it's super bombastic.

[01:00:39] Yeah, and I like everything.

[01:00:42] And that all influenced me.

[01:00:46] I only learned that I would never become a Ruben Block 2.

[01:00:50] I don't know that yet.

[01:00:52] But you have to do it yourself.

[01:00:54] And so that's also why I always feel like...

[01:00:59] I'm playing it theoretically,

[01:01:01] because there are always those big-senders.

[01:01:03] I met Deus, and I played the tonneau

[01:01:06] in the Hummus Rock Ralee.

[01:01:08] There was a lot of poppy, rocky,

[01:01:10] but Deus was with those big-senders,

[01:01:12] like Roses.

[01:01:13] That was...

[01:01:14] It was a bit of a mess on all sides.

[01:01:17] And I also look for it very consciously

[01:01:19] that it's Nirvana,

[01:01:20] that's a whole nice beatle harmony.

[01:01:23] But that was with those...

[01:01:24] The whole back of the strings.

[01:01:26] Yeah, and that's what I'm playing.

[01:01:30] I'm a big-shrugging Pumpkins.

[01:01:33] And as I play Hildin and Boel,

[01:01:35] I'm playing B.L. Karmel,

[01:01:36] and then I'm playing a very strange...

[01:01:39] My wife is getting mad at me.

[01:01:41] She's in the car,

[01:01:41] and she's playing with her synthesizers.

[01:01:44] That's so poppy.

[01:01:45] I'm playing the weekend, and Bruno Mars.

[01:01:47] I'm a huge Bruno Mars.

[01:01:49] I also play the Smash for Pumpkins or ECDC.

[01:01:53] And I'm absolutely...

[01:01:54] I know the good songs.

[01:01:56] I know the good performance.

[01:01:57] I'm not a Coldplay fan of Kwanummers,

[01:02:00] but I think it's an extremely good performance live.

[01:02:02] I was blown away from it.

[01:02:05] See, I also found a number of Rodgers,

[01:02:08] and then a room with a funk and disco...

[01:02:12] And Madonna, I don't know,

[01:02:14] I know her, but I know her too.

[01:02:16] Nonomuse and the Jack White.

[01:02:18] I'm playing it together.

[01:02:19] And one thing is quite common, I think,

[01:02:21] is that passion.

[01:02:23] That...

[01:02:24] That...

[01:02:25] That's what I'm really welcome to do.

[01:02:27] I don't know if there's anyone there

[01:02:29] who's super introvert, or a Jimmy Page,

[01:02:32] or a Jack White.

[01:02:33] They're all in style,

[01:02:34] but they're all in harmony.

[01:02:38] And I think,

[01:02:39] at the end of the day, it's the same.

[01:02:41] You can have someone with poker face,

[01:02:45] but that fits him,

[01:02:47] and he says the right thing,

[01:02:49] and that's what I bought from him.

[01:02:50] That can be said by someone

[01:02:50] who's super armed,

[01:02:53] and who's going with it,

[01:02:54] but that fits him.

[01:02:56] And it's a conversation that has to human to human.

[01:02:57] That can be said by someone who's very energetic,

[01:03:00] and starts to beat on all sides.

[01:03:02] But that fits, and creates trust.

[01:03:04] Why?

[01:03:05] It doesn't seem like in the beginning

[01:03:06] what we're saying,

[01:03:07] it doesn't feel forced.

[01:03:08] You don't hold your neck tight,

[01:03:09] and you don't think too much.

[01:03:11] Because it's...

[01:03:11] They're perfectly prepared.

[01:03:13] They're perfectly prepared,

[01:03:15] and they're authentic.

[01:03:16] It's these two.

[01:03:18] They're those two.

[01:03:18] They're those two.

[01:03:19] It's preparation, authenticity.

[01:03:21] It's that authenticity

[01:03:23] seems as if they're not prepared,

[01:03:26] but they're very well prepared.

[01:03:29] Do you understand what I mean?

[01:03:30] It seems as if you're on the wing.

[01:03:32] And that's sometimes the thing

[01:03:34] that I sometimes, sometimes by myself,

[01:03:35] sometimes by voice,

[01:03:37] I think of myself,

[01:03:38] I feel like I'm a real farmer.

[01:03:40] But he's got me,

[01:03:42] and it's through the question

[01:03:43] that I get a certain understanding

[01:03:45] that I know how to do it.

[01:03:47] Exactly.

[01:03:48] You have to stand there as a farmer

[01:03:50] between the long lines

[01:03:51] without knowledge,

[01:03:53] without a point of view.

[01:03:54] You often turn around there.

[01:03:55] In a point of view,

[01:03:57] how can I help you?

[01:03:57] Or where does Greek and Zook

[01:03:59] want you to do better?

[01:04:01] Or the audience listens?

[01:04:02] That's just the farmer.

[01:04:04] But if they do that

[01:04:05] with authenticity and with a point of view

[01:04:08] and with the intention

[01:04:09] to get more.

[01:04:11] Because for me,

[01:04:12] that was tough in the past weeks.

[01:04:13] Yes, it was the intention of...

[01:04:14] Yes, okay, good.

[01:04:15] I'm not agreed.

[01:04:16] I have a discussion here

[01:04:17] so that everyone

[01:04:18] can learn better about it.

[01:04:20] And you said it too.

[01:04:21] I don't know what you said.

[01:04:23] I mean, I mean it well.

[01:04:26] I asked consent.

[01:04:28] I asked consent.

[01:04:28] I said, look Alex,

[01:04:30] I love you.

[01:04:31] I love you.

[01:04:31] I love you.

[01:04:32] I love you.

[01:04:33] And I'm going to say something

[01:04:35] very direct here.

[01:04:36] And because I learned that

[01:04:39] if you want to do the

[01:04:41] Challenger style approach

[01:04:42] and provoke,

[01:04:44] I think that you shouldn't do that.

[01:04:47] So that means

[01:04:48] I'm going to say it,

[01:04:49] because I'm the X,

[01:04:50] I'm with Charlie.

[01:04:52] I'm going to say something.

[01:04:53] Forgive me if it comes too

[01:04:54] directly.

[01:04:55] So I'm at a country,

[01:04:56] Priming,

[01:04:57] or a Framing,

[01:04:58] and most people say

[01:05:00] look,

[01:05:00] they know that right away.

[01:05:02] Yes.

[01:05:02] Most people know

[01:05:04] that you're saying

[01:05:04] why?

[01:05:05] Because 9% of the buyers

[01:05:07] are just busy

[01:05:08] to please

[01:05:11] and likeable.

[01:05:12] To be likeable.

[01:05:13] While I don't want to be likeable,

[01:05:14] I want to discuss,

[01:05:16] I have respect for you.

[01:05:17] I want to create that value.

[01:05:19] But they can't be

[01:05:20] at any other point of view.

[01:05:21] I want to discuss it.

[01:05:22] Because I'm looking for

[01:05:25] the answer

[01:05:26] for better.

[01:05:29] And because I'm just

[01:05:30] ABC, always be curious.

[01:05:32] I'm just an extremely curious person.

[01:05:35] Like now.

[01:05:37] But that's right.

[01:05:39] What you're saying.

[01:05:41] What it's called now.

[01:05:41] But it's that.

[01:05:42] It's that

[01:05:44] authenticity

[01:05:45] combined with the...

[01:05:49] Experts in the business

[01:05:50] and Bill Nelton.

[01:05:52] Yes, the expertise

[01:05:53] that Bill Nelton,

[01:05:54] it's those three.

[01:05:55] That is that.

[01:05:56] And you feel that.

[01:05:57] It's the three that you need to be in.

[01:05:59] And that you also need a Jack White.

[01:06:01] He does that

[01:06:02] from the deepest of his soul.

[01:06:04] So I think there's nothing else.

[01:06:06] I've read a book

[01:06:07] about Jimmy Hendrix.

[01:06:09] And Eric Clapton came for him

[01:06:11] and in the 1970s

[01:06:12] Eric Clapton was considered

[01:06:13] God.

[01:06:14] He wrote it all over the place.

[01:06:16] And I think it was in the Albert Hall or something.

[01:06:20] And Eric Clapton did

[01:06:21] at that time still a lot of

[01:06:23] effort to train for that.

[01:06:24] He would play a lot of notes

[01:06:25] and then he would really

[01:06:27] and Jeff Beck,

[01:06:28] who, you know,

[01:06:31] Jeff Beck,

[01:06:31] I'm a huge Jeff Beck fan.

[01:06:32] Yes, I've heard a few things

[01:06:34] but I'm not sure.

[01:06:35] He can really

[01:06:37] with his tremolo

[01:06:39] like the notes of the note

[01:06:40] really perfect.

[01:06:41] That's a art.

[01:06:43] And the

[01:06:44] very, very emotional,

[01:06:47] very slim,

[01:06:48] I mean, harmonious.

[01:06:50] And Jeff Beck stood to look in

[01:06:52] and

[01:06:54] well,

[01:06:55] Eric Clapton was on the stage

[01:06:57] and Jimmy Hendrix was not yet known

[01:06:59] and just the Beatles

[01:07:01] released a new album.

[01:07:03] There was Spotify

[01:07:04] or YouTube

[01:07:05] and then I believe

[01:07:06] I'm wearing the

[01:07:08] Sergeant Pepper Lonely Band.

[01:07:10] That first song was

[01:07:12] Jimmy Hendrix.

[01:07:12] The day before it was released

[01:07:14] and Jimmy had already heard it.

[01:07:16] The one on YouTube

[01:07:18] with chords, that was

[01:07:19] you had on a pickup

[01:07:20] and you had that chord

[01:07:21] in the chords.

[01:07:23] And Jimmy

[01:07:23] so Eric Clapton was

[01:07:25] God.

[01:07:25] And Jimmy Hendrix came up

[01:07:27] and the second time

[01:07:29] what Jimmy Hendrix did

[01:07:31] was just

[01:07:32] he was playing a little

[01:07:32] miss

[01:07:32] and because of

[01:07:35] the enormous volume

[01:07:36] because they were

[01:07:37] on the stage

[01:07:37] and there were

[01:07:39] still a P.A. system

[01:07:42] the guitar

[01:07:43] went

[01:07:44] immediately

[01:07:45] in feedback

[01:07:45] I was like

[01:07:48] and immediately

[01:07:49] Eric Clapton

[01:07:50] from

[01:07:52] Star is Born

[01:07:53] Yes, it's a woman with me

[01:07:55] and he had to do

[01:07:56] all the things for all the things

[01:07:57] but that came

[01:07:58] from a very deep

[01:07:59] in an attitude

[01:08:01] and then he started

[01:08:02] playing the

[01:08:02] Sergeant Pepper Band

[01:08:05] and that was like

[01:08:07] and I know that

[01:08:08] Pete Townsend

[01:08:09] who was there

[01:08:10] and who also

[01:08:11] broke the guitar

[01:08:12] he said

[01:08:12] yes

[01:08:15] it's

[01:08:16] it's over

[01:08:17] and then

[01:08:17] he really asked

[01:08:18] I never

[01:08:19] never had

[01:08:20] played with me

[01:08:21] and made a real game of it

[01:08:23] and that was

[01:08:25] and it was just

[01:08:26] because of that one note

[01:08:27] and it was always with me

[01:08:28] because I used to think

[01:08:30] how many notes you play

[01:08:32] and how complex you play

[01:08:33] and you have to be able to

[01:08:34] play it

[01:08:35] super low key and all

[01:08:37] with Mixolydian

[01:08:38] and Dory and all

[01:08:39] or one note

[01:08:40] and Jack White

[01:08:41] did that too

[01:08:41] and he said

[01:08:42] the art of

[01:08:44] something

[01:08:46] Sevenation Army

[01:08:47] was the

[01:08:48] the anthem

[01:08:49] the anthem

[01:08:50] when you come to a music shop

[01:08:51] the beginners

[01:08:52] who start with that

[01:08:53] with Smoke on the Water

[01:08:55] or do you like it

[01:08:56] Marike Röytäideen in a riff

[01:08:57] does that

[01:08:58] something like that

[01:09:00] to write something simple

[01:09:02] and I used to

[01:09:03] I used to

[01:09:06] really like that

[01:09:07] that smoke

[01:09:07] and that thing

[01:09:09] what I described

[01:09:09] and what I think

[01:09:10] what I'm starting to appreciate more

[01:09:12] more to that

[01:09:14] pop is a good word

[01:09:15] but so

[01:09:16] interesting

[01:09:17] pop

[01:09:18] I think it's fantastic

[01:09:19] for example

[01:09:20] but it's

[01:09:21] why is that

[01:09:22] for me

[01:09:23] sometimes it's more brilliant

[01:09:24] than that smoke

[01:09:25] because

[01:09:26] the films of him

[01:09:28] that he

[01:09:28] the song

[01:09:29] is Trumay

[01:09:29] and that's a drummer

[01:09:31] of training

[01:09:31] so they think

[01:09:33] they're going to

[01:09:34] if Trumay is a drummer

[01:09:35] a drummer of training

[01:09:36] Paul van Averen is a drummer

[01:09:37] that's awesome

[01:09:38] so they think

[01:09:38] he's going to play

[01:09:39] drums solo

[01:09:41] or what then

[01:09:41] also when he makes music

[01:09:43] and

[01:09:43] so you see that he

[01:09:44] builds a song

[01:09:45] and then it always starts

[01:09:46] with a piano line

[01:09:48] and then

[01:09:48] only that piano line

[01:09:50] is like

[01:09:50] groove

[01:09:51] and then

[01:09:52] typically

[01:09:53] what a musician

[01:09:55] does

[01:09:55] is to put

[01:09:56] the same rhythm

[01:09:57] with your bass

[01:09:58] or my guitar

[01:09:59] or my next instrument

[01:10:00] and he then

[01:10:01] takes a second instrument

[01:10:02] and goes

[01:10:02] against that rhythm

[01:10:04] so you get

[01:10:04] two rhythms

[01:10:05] that are super

[01:10:06] interesting

[01:10:06] and then

[01:10:07] he does

[01:10:07] three or four layers

[01:10:09] in total

[01:10:09] and then

[01:10:10] he sings

[01:10:10] and then

[01:10:11] when you listen

[01:10:12] to his drum

[01:10:13] the instrument

[01:10:13] that he

[01:10:14] has

[01:10:14] is a kick

[01:10:16] and a clap

[01:10:17] and that's it

[01:10:17] but it's

[01:10:18] actually because

[01:10:18] he

[01:10:19] the hi-hats

[01:10:20] and

[01:10:21] the snare

[01:10:23] all stick

[01:10:23] stick to his

[01:10:26] melodic instrument

[01:10:27] exactly

[01:10:27] and that's for me

[01:10:28] is that the

[01:10:29] the geniality

[01:10:30] of each line

[01:10:31] on itself

[01:10:31] are all super simple

[01:10:32] just a loop

[01:10:33] four

[01:10:34] months

[01:10:36] looped

[01:10:37] but then

[01:10:38] he gets

[01:10:38] something

[01:10:39] like

[01:10:39] how do I put it

[01:10:40] in layers

[01:10:41] so then

[01:10:41] those layers

[01:10:42] together

[01:10:43] always a simple

[01:10:44] but a

[01:10:45] so danceable

[01:10:46] and so

[01:10:48] rhythm

[01:10:49] and interesting

[01:10:50] and I think

[01:10:51] today

[01:10:51] I'm more into that type of music

[01:10:53] like an Ed Sheeran is also

[01:10:54] I just heard Ed Sheeran say

[01:10:56] is also

[01:10:56] super good for example

[01:10:57] very simple

[01:10:59] simple numbers

[01:10:59] by guitar

[01:11:00] but just

[01:11:01] rhythm

[01:11:01] is super interesting

[01:11:03] in each other

[01:11:04] super good

[01:11:05] I can

[01:11:07] then say it

[01:11:07] once

[01:11:07] and it's going to sound a bit weird

[01:11:09] many people

[01:11:10] but

[01:11:11] I was

[01:11:12] in a car

[01:11:13] so

[01:11:14] six months

[01:11:14] only

[01:11:14] no

[01:11:15] it's already years

[01:11:16] and my son

[01:11:18] Saturday

[01:11:19] and he was

[01:11:20] completely

[01:11:20] my son was seven

[01:11:21] in August

[01:11:22] and that

[01:11:23] I had a conversation

[01:11:24] came out

[01:11:25] September

[01:11:25] so in the meantime

[01:11:26] it's seven

[01:11:26] seven

[01:11:27] more

[01:11:27] and he

[01:11:30] says

[01:11:30] dad

[01:11:31] dad

[01:11:31] years ago

[01:11:33] dad

[01:11:33] I want to be never

[01:11:34] I want to be never

[01:11:36] but

[01:11:37] yes I

[01:11:37] I listen to

[01:11:38] Nina the radio

[01:11:39] my car

[01:11:40] and

[01:11:41] and I said yes

[01:11:43] a note fell

[01:11:44] and I say

[01:11:45] in a car

[01:11:45] I say

[01:11:47] I speak

[01:11:48] I want to hear a note fall

[01:11:51] that note

[01:11:52] begins

[01:11:52] the note number

[01:11:54] to call

[01:11:54] yes

[01:11:54] call 112

[01:11:56] and I

[01:11:56] stop

[01:11:58] pressed

[01:11:59] and then stopped

[01:12:00] I saw in Google

[01:12:01] song note fall

[01:12:03] and then

[01:12:03] goldband came out

[01:12:04] and he said

[01:12:05] yes it's that number

[01:12:06] that I mean

[01:12:06] and he was

[01:12:08] in a car

[01:12:08] then he stopped

[01:12:09] at school

[01:12:09] because there

[01:12:11] fucking ambulance

[01:12:12] that word

[01:12:13] fucking

[01:12:13] that was

[01:12:13] yes

[01:12:14] that was

[01:12:15] not allowed

[01:12:16] to say

[01:12:17] dad

[01:12:17] from the

[01:12:17] fucking ambulance

[01:12:19] and

[01:12:20] but of course

[01:12:21] as I am

[01:12:22] I am always

[01:12:23] I am

[01:12:24] I

[01:12:24] I am

[01:12:25] an engineer

[01:12:26] I am

[01:12:32] an engineer

[01:12:32] but as a result

[01:12:33] I am extreme

[01:12:35] I am

[01:12:35] how strange it sounds

[01:12:36] I know

[01:12:37] a guy from Excel

[01:12:38] but I am a new

[01:12:39] very strong

[01:12:40] so I am looking

[01:12:41] what music is

[01:12:42] do you know

[01:12:42] the chords 1,3,5 etc

[01:12:45] I am looking

[01:12:47] why

[01:12:48] sounds that number

[01:12:49] so

[01:12:50] and I really mean

[01:12:51] chords

[01:12:52] sorry

[01:12:52] but also

[01:12:53] some teaching

[01:12:54] how that number

[01:12:56] is actually

[01:12:56] most people think

[01:12:57] goldband

[01:12:58] dumbass

[01:12:59] while there is

[01:13:01] something for me

[01:13:02] they say

[01:13:02] why does it work

[01:13:04] and then

[01:13:05] I am

[01:13:05] a note case

[01:13:06] start looking

[01:13:07] and

[01:13:09] yes that's

[01:13:10] literally the guitarist

[01:13:11] and then

[01:13:11] literally over

[01:13:13] so he

[01:13:14] I have an interview

[01:13:15] with him

[01:13:15] yes I am

[01:13:16] looking for everything

[01:13:17] and he

[01:13:18] is on a

[01:13:18] podium

[01:13:19] with

[01:13:19] those

[01:13:19] raw guitars

[01:13:21] from the 80s

[01:13:22] with whammy bars

[01:13:22] and he

[01:13:23] also plays

[01:13:23] from the hard rock

[01:13:24] soloist

[01:13:25] over the note case

[01:13:26] while live

[01:13:27] pumped up

[01:13:28] and he

[01:13:29] plays with

[01:13:30] drum computers

[01:13:30] and I think

[01:13:32] shit man

[01:13:33] I personally

[01:13:34] enjoy it

[01:13:35] because

[01:13:35] that person

[01:13:37] has a craft

[01:13:38] to write

[01:13:39] very good pop songs

[01:13:40] now

[01:13:41] let me

[01:13:41] an interview

[01:13:43] by

[01:13:44] someone

[01:13:44] from the conservatory

[01:13:46] at the Hague

[01:13:46] of Rotterdam

[01:13:47] and he

[01:13:49] was

[01:13:49] completely off

[01:13:49] because

[01:13:50] you hear

[01:13:52] that that's not

[01:13:52] conservatory music

[01:13:53] is

[01:13:55] and I thought

[01:13:56] so

[01:13:56] there we are

[01:13:57] and

[01:13:58] then I thought

[01:13:59] yes but that's

[01:14:00] music

[01:14:01] and it's also with

[01:14:01] sales

[01:14:02] you can say

[01:14:03] yes they don't

[01:14:04] fit together

[01:14:05] but it doesn't work

[01:14:06] because

[01:14:07] Jack White

[01:14:08] he does

[01:14:08] too

[01:14:08] and one of my

[01:14:10] prof of the

[01:14:10] class of olden

[01:14:11] and then

[01:14:11] Berkeley studied

[01:14:12] and then

[01:14:12] my big dream

[01:14:13] to study

[01:14:15] Berkeley

[01:14:15] is

[01:14:15] the guitar university

[01:14:17] in Boston

[01:14:17] in Boston

[01:14:18] worldwide

[01:14:19] that's

[01:14:20] the elite

[01:14:21] so the all the best

[01:14:23] of the world

[01:14:24] and

[01:14:24] he studied

[01:14:25] and there was

[01:14:26] in Belgium

[01:14:27] a couple

[01:14:27] who studied

[01:14:28] and that was

[01:14:29] my big dream

[01:14:30] so I also

[01:14:31] once

[01:14:31] and then

[01:14:33] bought a t-shirt

[01:14:33] so they

[01:14:34] just

[01:14:34] just

[01:14:35] Harvard

[01:14:36] in Boston

[01:14:37] and

[01:14:37] so my mother

[01:14:38] was out

[01:14:39] and I was

[01:14:39] really in

[01:14:41] just

[01:14:42] nobody asked me

[01:14:43] what you were doing here

[01:14:44] I wanted to feel

[01:14:46] and that prof

[01:14:47] and the

[01:14:48] half said

[01:14:49] I have to know one thing

[01:14:52] I understand

[01:14:52] that you have this dream

[01:14:54] what's

[01:14:55] the problem is

[01:14:55] that it's a kind of

[01:14:56] school

[01:14:58] that creates

[01:14:59] also a certain

[01:15:01] style

[01:15:02] and certain rules

[01:15:03] they said

[01:15:04] there you have to

[01:15:04] play with the

[01:15:05] clean tone

[01:15:06] that sounds a bit like a doffer

[01:15:07] and

[01:15:08] and he says

[01:15:09] Peter

[01:15:09] why don't you just

[01:15:10] play a metal guitar

[01:15:12] distortion

[01:15:13] and jazz

[01:15:13] and make it

[01:15:15] a fusion

[01:15:16] creates that

[01:15:17] with its own thing

[01:15:17] and then I learned

[01:15:18] that he also

[01:15:19] wrote for IMA

[01:15:19] or wrote

[01:15:20] and

[01:15:22] he had

[01:15:23] contact with

[01:15:24] the pop song

[01:15:24] writers

[01:15:25] and how they

[01:15:26] do that

[01:15:26] and that's

[01:15:27] really

[01:15:27] the kind of

[01:15:28] so those

[01:15:29] couple of songs

[01:15:29] by Michael Jackson

[01:15:31] they

[01:15:32] they delay

[01:15:32] they throw the note

[01:15:34] and

[01:15:34] they make

[01:15:35] that context completely different

[01:15:36] so that

[01:15:37] it doesn't sound anymore

[01:15:38] but that's the same

[01:15:39] but there is

[01:15:40] a magic

[01:15:41] that's

[01:15:41] and he also said

[01:15:44] and he's a

[01:15:45] super studious person

[01:15:46] I say

[01:15:46] how do you write that song

[01:15:48] for

[01:15:48] or for

[01:15:50] or

[01:15:50] and I just

[01:15:52] play my guitar

[01:15:53] in different ways

[01:15:55] I just say

[01:15:56] random my fingers

[01:15:57] I make it

[01:15:58] and then

[01:16:01] and then

[01:16:01] and then a minute later

[01:16:02] I make a demo

[01:16:03] for Kate Ryan

[01:16:03] playing

[01:16:04] that

[01:16:05] that

[01:16:05] you call

[01:16:06] poppy house

[01:16:08] and then

[01:16:09] and then I think

[01:16:09] and I learned

[01:16:11] that

[01:16:11] and there are no rules

[01:16:14] bent the rules

[01:16:15] and in sales

[01:16:15] is that

[01:16:17] bent the rules

[01:16:18] and it's

[01:16:19] that

[01:16:19] for you

[01:16:20] it's a bit authentic

[01:16:22] comes

[01:16:23] what he has to accept

[01:16:24] I think

[01:16:24] I do

[01:16:25] and also in sales

[01:16:27] is that

[01:16:27] you will not be for everyone

[01:16:29] so there are people

[01:16:30] who do not appreciate

[01:16:31] that it does not resonate

[01:16:33] that it is not for you

[01:16:34] and

[01:16:35] if you have a fan

[01:16:36] who is, for example

[01:16:37] is different

[01:16:37] he will resonate

[01:16:38] with other people

[01:16:39] so you have to accept

[01:16:41] you can

[01:16:41] you can

[01:16:42] you can

[01:16:43] for everyone

[01:16:43] and that's

[01:16:44] a conscious choice

[01:16:45] when you enter that path

[01:16:48] no that's true

[01:16:49] it always clicks

[01:16:50] or ways

[01:16:51] but on that

[01:16:51] now

[01:16:52] I think

[01:16:53] or you always have

[01:16:55] aspects to your character

[01:16:57] that you can

[01:16:57] more explain

[01:16:58] in some conversations

[01:16:59] than in others

[01:17:00] where you can

[01:17:01] really do the good sales

[01:17:03] you adapt

[01:17:04] to your audience

[01:17:05] with who you are

[01:17:05] but it's anyway

[01:17:07] people who of course

[01:17:07] click with other people

[01:17:08] based on

[01:17:09] how they are together

[01:17:10] but

[01:17:10] you can

[01:17:12] read the room

[01:17:13] or feel the room

[01:17:14] but when you

[01:17:15] have someone

[01:17:15] who is very introverted

[01:17:17] he has that

[01:17:18] we ourselves

[01:17:19] then it's a bit performance

[01:17:20] that you have to

[01:17:21] enlarge certain people

[01:17:22] you don't have to

[01:17:24] have a hype

[01:17:24] to put people in the meeting

[01:17:26] with

[01:17:26] so you have to

[01:17:28] change

[01:17:29] and you have to know

[01:17:30] know your energy

[01:17:32] know

[01:17:33] to put

[01:17:33] in a band

[01:17:34] you don't have to

[01:17:35] play solo for three minutes

[01:17:37] if that

[01:17:38] if that is dynamic

[01:17:39] on the other side

[01:17:40] that the music

[01:17:41] is the silence between the notes

[01:17:44] and that's funko

[01:17:45] that's especially

[01:17:46] very short

[01:17:47] so you don't have to

[01:17:48] play it in non

[01:17:48] play

[01:17:48] especially the

[01:17:51] notes

[01:17:51] and know

[01:17:52] because

[01:17:53] the differences between

[01:17:54] the chorus and the verse

[01:17:55] and the chorus

[01:17:56] and the dynamics

[01:17:57] and the music

[01:17:58] that's also a lot

[01:18:00] a lot of music

[01:18:01] from

[01:18:02] where I also feel

[01:18:03] really different

[01:18:03] between good and bad

[01:18:05] the typical

[01:18:07] pop rock

[01:18:08] is just

[01:18:09] four months straight

[01:18:10] and from

[01:18:11] minute one

[01:18:12] to time

[01:18:12] guitar, bass

[01:18:13] everything on

[01:18:14] chorus

[01:18:15] everything a bit louder

[01:18:16] and then everything on

[01:18:17] and there's no

[01:18:18] little dynamics

[01:18:20] and little

[01:18:20] as we said

[01:18:22] more low

[01:18:23] in that rhythm

[01:18:23] also sounds complex

[01:18:25] but all apart

[01:18:26] is super simple

[01:18:27] but that creates the dynamics

[01:18:28] and that's the difference

[01:18:29] I grew more

[01:18:31] and more

[01:18:31] and I think it's

[01:18:33] super interesting

[01:18:34] and I think

[01:18:34] everything from

[01:18:36] before

[01:18:36] I wasn't really

[01:18:37] a fan of hip hop

[01:18:38] always Kanye West

[01:18:40] it's just a few years

[01:18:41] until you

[01:18:42] really start

[01:18:43] to go

[01:18:44] and realize

[01:18:45] no

[01:18:46] it's great

[01:18:47] the way that

[01:18:48] rhythm

[01:18:48] lives

[01:18:49] how he

[01:18:49] with a few simple notes

[01:18:53] creates

[01:18:53] whole new music

[01:18:55] and finds

[01:18:56] and defines genres

[01:18:57] and genres

[01:18:58] that's a big

[01:18:59] point

[01:18:59] I have to look at the videos

[01:19:00] how they

[01:19:02] number

[01:19:03] that's

[01:19:04] brilliant

[01:19:04] or the prodigy

[01:19:05] and then

[01:19:06] I think

[01:19:06] that's again

[01:19:07] the banter rules

[01:19:09] I know

[01:19:10] in the air tonight

[01:19:11] from Phil Collins

[01:19:12] the effect

[01:19:14] of the drums

[01:19:14] that is actually

[01:19:16] that's a

[01:19:17] coincidence

[01:19:18] the photo

[01:19:20] distortion

[01:19:20] is a photo

[01:19:21] the engineer

[01:19:22] in the studio

[01:19:23] who won the distortion

[01:19:24] had

[01:19:25] that had to be taken out

[01:19:26] see

[01:19:27] and then

[01:19:28] the acid house

[01:19:30] in the 80s

[01:19:31] that was a Roland

[01:19:31] drum computers

[01:19:33] they really tried

[01:19:33] to make a drum

[01:19:34] but it never worked

[01:19:35] and no one

[01:19:36] got it

[01:19:37] sold on the street

[01:19:37] and then

[01:19:38] a few producers

[01:19:39] in the 80s

[01:19:40] some of those

[01:19:42] things

[01:19:42] were bought

[01:19:42] that's nothing

[01:19:43] and they started

[01:19:44] to manipulate

[01:19:46] that

[01:19:47] things

[01:19:47] the share

[01:19:49] I believe

[01:19:50] is an example

[01:19:51] of the

[01:19:51] call it auto tune

[01:19:52] that is extremely

[01:19:54] driven

[01:19:54] but again

[01:19:55] that has

[01:19:55] a very rare effect

[01:19:57] and then

[01:19:58] that's the standard

[01:19:59] and I think it's so cool

[01:20:01] how you

[01:20:01] get it

[01:20:01] as technology

[01:20:02] that's

[01:20:02] used

[01:20:06] to be more creative

[01:20:07] that's nice

[01:20:08] and there

[01:20:10] I think that

[01:20:10] hip hop

[01:20:12] in the last

[01:20:14] 20 years

[01:20:15] I think

[01:20:15] 90s

[01:20:15] was all the same

[01:20:17] and then suddenly

[01:20:18] people like

[01:20:19] a Kanye

[01:20:20] that suddenly

[01:20:21] every year

[01:20:22] every new album

[01:20:22] that came out

[01:20:23] hip hop redefined

[01:20:24] and me

[01:20:25] hip hop

[01:20:25] also has

[01:20:26] many other genres

[01:20:27] and I think

[01:20:28] that

[01:20:29] in my own

[01:20:30] a lot of innovation

[01:20:31] came

[01:20:32] just music

[01:20:33] what can you do with it

[01:20:34] because it really

[01:20:34] embraced

[01:20:35] using

[01:20:35] technology

[01:20:37] in music

[01:20:38] using rhythm

[01:20:39] in music

[01:20:40] and there

[01:20:41] really

[01:20:41] a lot of people

[01:20:42] will find out

[01:20:43] something that

[01:20:44] typical

[01:20:44] to European

[01:20:46] UK music

[01:20:47] that they often

[01:20:48] stayed the same

[01:20:49] the typical rock

[01:20:51] or pop

[01:20:52] songs

[01:20:52] so

[01:20:53] no

[01:20:54] constant innovation

[01:20:55] and adjustment

[01:20:56] and at the same time

[01:20:57] I think it's so funny

[01:20:59] that you

[01:20:59] are so young

[01:21:00] from bands

[01:21:01] or from what I think

[01:21:02] you're just looking

[01:21:03] at a Led Zeppelin copy

[01:21:05] and I say it's worth it

[01:21:06] but for example

[01:21:07] Main Skin

[01:21:09] is just

[01:21:09] a street

[01:21:10] in a marshal

[01:21:11] with guests

[01:21:12] who are on the top

[01:21:12] with a bassist

[01:21:14] who is more

[01:21:14] on the table

[01:21:15] and you find

[01:21:16] something

[01:21:16] that you want

[01:21:17] because then

[01:21:18] it's all the same

[01:21:20] I really

[01:21:21] think it's super

[01:21:22] hilarious

[01:21:23] I can

[01:21:23] here

[01:21:23] in a

[01:21:25] you call it

[01:21:27] pop rock

[01:21:27] student

[01:21:28] who really

[01:21:29] studies

[01:21:29] with her dad

[01:21:31] like 20 or so

[01:21:32] and she came

[01:21:34] to buy a guitar

[01:21:34] a street from me

[01:21:35] and

[01:21:37] I say so

[01:21:39] I take

[01:21:40] otherwise an assumption

[01:21:41] the young guy

[01:21:42] the Jens here

[01:21:43] I call it

[01:21:44] the

[01:21:45] I don't know

[01:21:46] the Tik Tokers

[01:21:47] or something

[01:21:48] then I think

[01:21:49] that

[01:21:50] is

[01:21:51] the Camper XFX

[01:21:52] Line 6

[01:21:53] all digital

[01:21:53] including me

[01:21:55] old school

[01:21:55] pedal kids

[01:21:56] including me

[01:21:58] I'm completely

[01:22:00] online

[01:22:01] I also short

[01:22:01] for my

[01:22:02] digital brand

[01:22:03] and they

[01:22:05] can also sponsor

[01:22:06] because they use it

[01:22:07] and

[01:22:07] I don't know

[01:22:10] it's digital

[01:22:11] it sounds digital

[01:22:13] and I say

[01:22:13] is it 20

[01:22:14] I play

[01:22:15] on

[01:22:16] an amp with pedals

[01:22:18] I don't have to

[01:22:18] play the digital

[01:22:19] and I think

[01:22:20] it's really

[01:22:21] a lot of money

[01:22:23] that's

[01:22:23] really

[01:22:24] I think

[01:22:28] it's

[01:22:29] that

[01:22:30] it's just a

[01:22:31] wronged up

[01:22:31] that is

[01:22:31] really

[01:22:32] thought out

[01:22:33] for books

[01:22:33] while

[01:22:34] that it always comes back

[01:22:37] so

[01:22:37] and I think

[01:22:38] really cool to see

[01:22:39] that we

[01:22:40] actually

[01:22:40] with the

[01:22:41] lifetime

[01:22:41] that we

[01:22:42] always

[01:22:42] want

[01:22:43] because

[01:22:44] on your lifetime

[01:22:45] if you're going to

[01:22:46] have a conversation

[01:22:46] with someone

[01:22:47] of my lifetime

[01:22:49] so you can

[01:22:49] see the

[01:22:50] new action

[01:22:50] and so you can

[01:22:51] see that

[01:22:51] as a mature and

[01:22:52] I'm

[01:22:52] of course

[01:22:54] I just

[01:22:55] know

[01:22:56] just a few more years

[01:22:57] with

[01:22:58] it's a little

[01:23:00] a bit black

[01:23:00] this is

[01:23:01] what they actually

[01:23:02] that

[01:23:03] so that's not

[01:23:05] the only difference

[01:23:06] is that

[01:23:08] is that

[01:23:08] yo

[01:23:09] he's still third

[01:23:10] and

[01:23:11] I know

[01:23:12] that you

[01:23:12] really

[01:23:13] really good

[01:23:13] in check

[01:23:14] because

[01:23:14] you actually

[01:23:15] have

[01:23:15] everything

[01:23:16] to think that

[01:23:17] you have

[01:23:17] the sun

[01:23:18] and

[01:23:18] he's

[01:23:20] really good

[01:23:21] to keep that

[01:23:22] going

[01:23:25] I just have

[01:23:26] a lot

[01:23:28] like I said

[01:23:29] in sales

[01:23:30] they're never the best

[01:23:31] sales

[01:23:32] but they are

[01:23:33] CEO, they're the founder

[01:23:34] but

[01:23:34] everyone can

[01:23:36] be a business

[01:23:36] and

[01:23:37] be a CEO

[01:23:37] founder

[01:23:38] when I

[01:23:38] said

[01:23:39] that

[01:23:39] you're

[01:23:39] a series D

[01:23:40] and that there's

[01:23:41] 400 million

[01:23:42] behind it

[01:23:43] or

[01:23:43] I don't know

[01:23:44] what's next

[01:23:44] I don't know

[01:23:45] do you understand

[01:23:47] your point

[01:23:47] but you're

[01:23:49] really

[01:23:50] doing something

[01:23:51] with other people

[01:23:53] and you

[01:23:53] have

[01:23:53] to have

[01:23:54] the most

[01:23:57] important

[01:23:57] and

[01:23:58] see

[01:23:58] that

[01:23:59] people use

[01:24:00] solutions

[01:24:01] I think

[01:24:02] that's

[01:24:02] the best

[01:24:04] problem

[01:24:04] you see

[01:24:04] a problem

[01:24:06] you

[01:24:07] think

[01:24:07] this could be a solution

[01:24:09] you

[01:24:09] trust that

[01:24:10] creates

[01:24:11] that

[01:24:11] starts to run

[01:24:12] and suddenly

[01:24:13] months

[01:24:14] years later

[01:24:15] starts to see

[01:24:16] the

[01:24:16] hypotheses

[01:24:17] we have

[01:24:18] we have to

[01:24:19] adapt

[01:24:20] a long way

[01:24:21] but now

[01:24:22] people use

[01:24:22] that

[01:24:23] and say

[01:24:23] that's

[01:24:24] what's coming

[01:24:25] wow

[01:24:25] can this

[01:24:26] also

[01:24:26] and

[01:24:27] you start

[01:24:27] to feel

[01:24:28] how

[01:24:29] you see

[01:24:30] that it

[01:24:31] really

[01:24:33] a great feeling

[01:24:35] and if you think back

[01:24:35] and

[01:24:36] you have

[01:24:38] a lot of

[01:24:38] things

[01:24:38] I think

[01:24:42] that's

[01:24:43] really rewarding

[01:24:47] beautiful

[01:24:48] beautiful

[01:24:50] I'm still

[01:24:50] 10

[01:24:51] but we can run

[01:24:52] and then

[01:24:53] a coffee

[01:24:53] thank you

[01:24:56] I think

[01:24:57] you're

[01:24:57] a top girl

[01:24:58] so you're on a

[01:24:59] and I think

[01:25:00] a lot of

[01:25:01] fluidity

[01:25:02] what you said

[01:25:02] and I also

[01:25:03] admire your passion

[01:25:04] and your dynamics

[01:25:05] man

[01:25:06] I'm excited

[01:25:06] that's good

[01:25:09] I also

[01:25:10] have a great

[01:25:10] reputation

[01:25:10] really

[01:25:11] very

[01:25:12] very

[01:25:13] very

[01:25:13] very

[01:25:13] very

[01:25:15] very

[01:25:15] very

[01:25:15] very

[01:25:16] very

[01:25:16] very

[01:25:16] very

[01:25:19] very

[01:25:21] very good man

[01:25:22] and

[01:25:22] look at him

[01:25:23] great

[01:25:25] thank you

[01:25:26] for listening to

[01:25:26] a great conversation

[01:25:28] I hope you've

[01:25:29] noticed something

[01:25:29] or learned

[01:25:31] and that

[01:25:31] you have given yourself

[01:25:32] to live

[01:25:33] closer to yourself

[01:25:35] and to take

[01:25:36] your life in

[01:25:36] hands

[01:25:36] while you buy one of the books

[01:25:39] we've discussed

[01:25:39] then we go back

[01:25:40] to

[01:25:41] pysgrowl.com

[01:25:41] that is

[01:25:43] pysgrowl.com

[01:25:45] would be

[01:25:46] super cool

[01:25:47] if you also

[01:25:47] love the canton

[01:25:48] thanks to a review

[01:25:49] that ends up

[01:25:50] iTunes, Spotify

[01:25:51] or YouTube

[01:25:52] and for the rest

[01:25:53] I wish you

[01:25:53] a fantastic

[01:25:54] life

[01:25:55] fantastic week

[01:25:56] fantastic day

[01:25:57] until next week

[01:25:58] dance day