275 Nelly De Keye Over Narcisme Op Het Werk | What's On Your Mind? (Dutch/Nederlands)

[00:00:00] [SPEAKER_03]: 25,000 times. That's so many times.

[00:00:03] [SPEAKER_03]: How many of you have listened or looked at the conversation I had a few years ago

[00:00:09] [SPEAKER_03]: with Nelly De Keye about narcissism in romantic relationships between parents and children.

[00:00:16] [SPEAKER_03]: And I made a second episode on many occasions.

[00:00:20] [SPEAKER_03]: This time not too long, but physically with more than 20 beautiful people

[00:00:24] [SPEAKER_03]: like Evi Geindricks, Nelly De Keye and this time about narcissism on the work.

[00:00:32] [SPEAKER_03]: Of course we always start to give our narcissism a recap of narcissism in relationships.

[00:00:40] [SPEAKER_03]: I wouldn't say that because it's a very nice conversation

[00:00:43] [SPEAKER_03]: more than one hour full of flow with Nelly De Keye.

[00:00:49] [SPEAKER_00]: Welcome to Whats On Your Mind with Peter Snauwaert.

[00:00:53] [SPEAKER_00]: Every week a guest tells about his or her story.

[00:00:56] [SPEAKER_00]: And that story can inspire you to take your life into your hands.

[00:01:01] [SPEAKER_03]: Exciting Nelly?

[00:01:03] [SPEAKER_03]: Yes, she's busy.

[00:01:04] [SPEAKER_03]: I never do that kind of intro or that kind of attitude.

[00:01:08] [SPEAKER_03]: I know that.

[00:01:10] [SPEAKER_01]: Then you were already taking up the job and I didn't know it yet.

[00:01:15] [SPEAKER_01]: How long has it been? Two years? Three years?

[00:01:17] [SPEAKER_01]: Five October 2021.

[00:01:21] [SPEAKER_01]: That's because I just looked it up.

[00:01:26] [SPEAKER_03]: That was a conversation that wasn't in the queue,

[00:01:31] [SPEAKER_03]: as I can say, but it is a conversation that always stands at number one for everyone.

[00:01:38] [SPEAKER_03]: And we are very many people together.

[00:01:42] [SPEAKER_03]: And when I look at everyone in person,

[00:01:50] [SPEAKER_03]: I see that there is one thing that stands out.

[00:01:55] [SPEAKER_03]: There is a very sexy young man, Jean-Marc.

[00:01:59] [SPEAKER_03]: And the rest are all ladies.

[00:02:02] [SPEAKER_03]: How does that come about?

[00:02:04] [SPEAKER_03]: Is it because he is so brave, because he is allowed to?

[00:02:10] [SPEAKER_03]: Is it because other men don't care?

[00:02:12] [SPEAKER_01]: No, I think that's a bit of a brave thing to do.

[00:02:16] [SPEAKER_01]: But that he has recognized it.

[00:02:19] [SPEAKER_01]: And that he has recognized it and wants to do something about it.

[00:02:23] [SPEAKER_01]: Because I have to say, in the beginning, that I was busy with my practice.

[00:02:27] [SPEAKER_01]: That's been eight years now.

[00:02:29] [SPEAKER_01]: And he was the big exception.

[00:02:33] [SPEAKER_01]: When I said, I'm taking a picture of you,

[00:02:36] [SPEAKER_01]: there came a man.

[00:02:38] [SPEAKER_01]: In the house I have a quarter of the people who came to the consultation.

[00:02:43] [SPEAKER_01]: Men.

[00:02:44] [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe from day to day.

[00:02:47] [SPEAKER_01]: There is still an idea that comes much more with men.

[00:02:54] [SPEAKER_03]: But I'm not there yet.

[00:02:56] [SPEAKER_03]: I read that narcissism and narcissistic behaviour are two different things.

[00:03:05] [SPEAKER_03]: And each of us is a bit of a narcissist.

[00:03:10] [SPEAKER_03]: But I really thought it came more with men.

[00:03:13] [SPEAKER_03]: And I'm really doing narcissism, so that's almost psychopathic.

[00:03:17] [SPEAKER_03]: And that women are less.

[00:03:19] [SPEAKER_03]: But I'm too lazy now.

[00:03:20] [SPEAKER_03]: I had a lunch, but I couldn't mention it.

[00:03:23] [SPEAKER_03]: I was at home, professionally with a nighty girl.

[00:03:26] [SPEAKER_03]: And she recognized that my ex is a neo-sorenacist

[00:03:29] [SPEAKER_03]: who has actually painted me up to the right bank as a pedophile.

[00:03:33] [SPEAKER_03]: And I felt a certain taboo because I said something about you tonight.

[00:03:36] [SPEAKER_03]: I said, podcast about it.

[00:03:38] [SPEAKER_03]: And he said, I really did participate.

[00:03:41] [SPEAKER_03]: And I don't know, I can have the perception that if it's a woman,

[00:03:46] [SPEAKER_03]: then she's the first one to come to the scene

[00:03:47] [SPEAKER_03]: because you can't see it on the outside.

[00:03:48] [SPEAKER_03]: You can't see it at all because it's a lot of laughter.

[00:03:51] [SPEAKER_03]: Than the man who is more charming

[00:03:54] [SPEAKER_03]: and the woman who is more like a princess in the beginning.

[00:04:00] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm convinced that women can come to the scene

[00:04:03] [SPEAKER_01]: and men can come to the scene.

[00:04:04] [SPEAKER_01]: But to start, you have to say,

[00:04:07] [SPEAKER_01]: women's perception is different.

[00:04:10] [SPEAKER_01]: So I make a difference between open assistant,

[00:04:13] [SPEAKER_01]: all-out trump, that's my dodactic material, I would say.

[00:04:18] [SPEAKER_01]: And for pride in assistant,

[00:04:20] [SPEAKER_01]: those are the charming, sweet people on the outside

[00:04:24] [SPEAKER_01]: but who make a hell out of their home.

[00:04:28] [SPEAKER_01]: Now, men are already easier open assistants.

[00:04:31] [SPEAKER_01]: A lot less women come to the scene than open assistants.

[00:04:36] [SPEAKER_01]: But if women are an assistant,

[00:04:38] [SPEAKER_01]: then the backpacks are more common, ugly, slimmer.

[00:04:44] [SPEAKER_01]: Sorry, it's my fault too, but I can't recognize it otherwise.

[00:04:49] [SPEAKER_01]: But if men come to me,

[00:04:53] [SPEAKER_01]: then there are heavy cases of narcissism.

[00:04:57] [SPEAKER_01]: But there are also narcissistic women

[00:04:59] [SPEAKER_01]: where it's not noticed,

[00:05:02] [SPEAKER_01]: but you see that a man is under the guise

[00:05:07] [SPEAKER_01]: but doesn't realize that he's in the wrong hand.

[00:05:12] [SPEAKER_03]: Yes, but I made sure of that.

[00:05:14] [SPEAKER_03]: That's a kind of cognitive dissonance

[00:05:16] [SPEAKER_03]: and I had that over with that person too.

[00:05:18] [SPEAKER_03]: I gave him what a man was.

[00:05:20] [SPEAKER_03]: I said to him,

[00:05:23] [SPEAKER_03]: put on your face a Porsche.

[00:05:25] [SPEAKER_03]: He lives there until the moment he has a Porsche

[00:05:27] [SPEAKER_03]: and in the beginning it's a Porsche

[00:05:29] [SPEAKER_03]: if you think that's important

[00:05:31] [SPEAKER_03]: or Lamborghini or if you can't notice that it is.

[00:05:33] [SPEAKER_03]: That's not my thing.

[00:05:34] [SPEAKER_03]: In the beginning you think it's a Porsche

[00:05:37] [SPEAKER_03]: two weeks after that, a Porsche three months after

[00:05:40] [SPEAKER_03]: and you don't feel that anymore

[00:05:42] [SPEAKER_03]: because your heart has adapted to a certain situation

[00:05:46] [SPEAKER_03]: and that has been found normally.

[00:05:50] [SPEAKER_03]: So that's a certain behaviour

[00:05:51] [SPEAKER_03]: and I've done that myself too.

[00:05:53] [SPEAKER_03]: You just don't know

[00:05:54] [SPEAKER_03]: is that normal?

[00:05:56] [SPEAKER_03]: What is normal?

[00:05:58] [SPEAKER_03]: And that you just accept that it is

[00:06:00] [SPEAKER_03]: and you also accept that it is.

[00:06:03] [SPEAKER_01]: Then the story of the cooked chicken

[00:06:06] [SPEAKER_01]: where that's a comparison

[00:06:09] [SPEAKER_01]: that we all know

[00:06:10] [SPEAKER_01]: the behaviour of a narcissist

[00:06:13] [SPEAKER_01]: and then I have it about a real narcissist

[00:06:15] [SPEAKER_01]: someone with personality disorder

[00:06:18] [SPEAKER_01]: the behaviour he turns

[00:06:19] [SPEAKER_01]: and the way he treats someone

[00:06:21] [SPEAKER_01]: is so bad that

[00:06:23] [SPEAKER_01]: outside sometimes you say

[00:06:25] [SPEAKER_01]: but you don't say

[00:06:30] [SPEAKER_01]: you don't notice that anymore.

[00:06:31] [SPEAKER_01]: Did it have to happen in the beginning?

[00:06:33] [SPEAKER_01]: Like being kicked off for the first week

[00:06:35] [SPEAKER_01]: but you don't notice that.

[00:06:39] [SPEAKER_01]: And to jump over to our subject

[00:06:42] [SPEAKER_01]: that also happens at work.

[00:06:44] [SPEAKER_03]: Well, and I was going to say

[00:06:47] [SPEAKER_03]: that one of the things that I can tell

[00:06:53] [SPEAKER_03]: is in a romantic relationship

[00:06:55] [SPEAKER_03]: but also an older child relationship

[00:06:57] [SPEAKER_03]: if the parents are narcissistic

[00:07:00] [SPEAKER_03]: or narcissists

[00:07:02] [SPEAKER_03]: then there is only one way

[00:07:04] [SPEAKER_03]: a narcissist will never be in a state to have love.

[00:07:07] [SPEAKER_03]: So that means

[00:07:09] [SPEAKER_03]: is that love itself

[00:07:10] [SPEAKER_03]: and breaking the only option

[00:07:13] [SPEAKER_03]: to let it go?

[00:07:17] [SPEAKER_03]: Of course, if you're with your parents

[00:07:19] [SPEAKER_03]: and you have children

[00:07:20] [SPEAKER_03]: then I can take care of them

[00:07:22] [SPEAKER_03]: and I can take care of them

[00:07:27] [SPEAKER_03]: and my children also don't become narcissistic

[00:07:28] [SPEAKER_03]: and I think that's the main thing

[00:07:30] [SPEAKER_03]: is to give yourself and yourself the example

[00:07:32] [SPEAKER_03]: of love.

[00:07:33] [SPEAKER_03]: And I jump to work

[00:07:35] [SPEAKER_03]: I've heard a recent situation

[00:07:39] [SPEAKER_03]: of a happy manager

[00:07:41] [SPEAKER_03]: very high-ranked

[00:07:43] [SPEAKER_03]: who actually

[00:07:45] [SPEAKER_03]: a man

[00:07:47] [SPEAKER_03]: who was already 40 years old

[00:07:48] [SPEAKER_03]: in a certain position

[00:07:49] [SPEAKER_03]: who actually made a file

[00:07:52] [SPEAKER_03]: of all kinds of things

[00:07:54] [SPEAKER_03]: but actually he did

[00:07:55] [SPEAKER_03]: I know a lot of things

[00:07:56] [SPEAKER_03]: he wanted to work together for 40 years

[00:07:57] [SPEAKER_03]: and the relationship was closed

[00:08:00] [SPEAKER_03]: so he became a new boss

[00:08:02] [SPEAKER_03]: and he called him

[00:08:05] [SPEAKER_03]: and he completely

[00:08:07] [SPEAKER_03]: rejected him

[00:08:09] [SPEAKER_03]: until he started winning

[00:08:10] [SPEAKER_03]: and then there was a bit of laughter

[00:08:15] [SPEAKER_03]: that really made me pure narcissism

[00:08:18] [SPEAKER_03]: because if you have shared the film

[00:08:19] [SPEAKER_03]: you deliberately lose it

[00:08:21] [SPEAKER_03]: I mean

[00:08:22] [SPEAKER_03]: I can be hard

[00:08:23] [SPEAKER_03]: and direct

[00:08:24] [SPEAKER_03]: my intention is always to show

[00:08:26] [SPEAKER_03]: a game to certain people

[00:08:27] [SPEAKER_03]: if they ask that

[00:08:29] [SPEAKER_03]: never to be aware of someone

[00:08:31] [SPEAKER_03]: to go and laugh and laugh

[00:08:34] [SPEAKER_03]: someone who has seen it

[00:08:35] [SPEAKER_03]: normally then you have an empathy and compassion

[00:08:37] [SPEAKER_03]: for that

[00:08:38] [SPEAKER_03]: then you just laugh more

[00:08:41] [SPEAKER_01]: yes, yes, that's typical narcissism

[00:08:44] [SPEAKER_01]: in the story you tell

[00:08:47] [SPEAKER_01]: I think that's a bit typical

[00:08:50] [SPEAKER_01]: the power relationships

[00:08:51] [SPEAKER_01]: have been there

[00:08:53] [SPEAKER_01]: I have this idea

[00:08:54] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know the story

[00:08:56] [SPEAKER_01]: but that she worked for years

[00:08:59] [SPEAKER_01]: to be upgraded

[00:09:02] [SPEAKER_01]: and to be able to

[00:09:03] [SPEAKER_01]: to be able to be small

[00:09:04] [SPEAKER_01]: and once she has the idea

[00:09:05] [SPEAKER_01]: of achieving what she wants

[00:09:08] [SPEAKER_01]: then she can be on her own

[00:09:09] [SPEAKER_01]: so in that way

[00:09:11] [SPEAKER_01]: she definitely has that personality

[00:09:15] [SPEAKER_03]: and what she does

[00:09:16] [SPEAKER_03]: is to be able to live on

[00:09:16] [SPEAKER_03]: and she loves to stay there

[00:09:19] [SPEAKER_03]: and the day that happens

[00:09:22] [SPEAKER_03]: the next day she says

[00:09:23] [SPEAKER_03]: I am gone

[00:09:24] [SPEAKER_03]: and in the meantime she has drawn

[00:09:27] [SPEAKER_03]: with another person

[00:09:29] [SPEAKER_03]: and that's for me

[00:09:31] [SPEAKER_03]: what should you do

[00:09:33] [SPEAKER_03]: if you have a teacher

[00:09:36] [SPEAKER_03]: or a narcissist

[00:09:38] [SPEAKER_01]: yes

[00:09:39] [SPEAKER_01]: in the case you tell

[00:09:41] [SPEAKER_01]: for example

[00:09:42] [SPEAKER_01]: if you want to be a narcissist

[00:09:43] [SPEAKER_01]: then you are gone

[00:09:44] [SPEAKER_01]: and the only option

[00:09:45] [SPEAKER_01]: but the solution is not always gone

[00:09:48] [SPEAKER_01]: you don't have to forget

[00:09:49] [SPEAKER_01]: so we are everywhere

[00:09:50] [SPEAKER_01]: and you always risk it

[00:09:53] [SPEAKER_01]: rain in the drop

[00:09:54] [SPEAKER_01]: and when it comes

[00:09:55] [SPEAKER_03]: they often say

[00:09:56] [SPEAKER_03]: that you are going to speak in advance

[00:10:00] [SPEAKER_01]: I actually want

[00:10:02] [SPEAKER_01]: there was no question

[00:10:04] [SPEAKER_01]: that you asked

[00:10:05] [SPEAKER_01]: but we just talked about

[00:10:07] [SPEAKER_01]: the previous podcast

[00:10:08] [SPEAKER_01]: where I have more about relationships

[00:10:12] [SPEAKER_01]: actually

[00:10:12] [SPEAKER_01]: I could say narcissism is narcissism

[00:10:15] [SPEAKER_01]: for a very large part

[00:10:16] [SPEAKER_01]: is what I said in the first podcast

[00:10:19] [SPEAKER_01]: also in the second

[00:10:20] [SPEAKER_01]: but there are a few significant differences

[00:10:23] [SPEAKER_01]: if you have

[00:10:24] [SPEAKER_01]: about narcissism at work

[00:10:26] [SPEAKER_01]: you just spoke about

[00:10:29] [SPEAKER_01]: love for relationships

[00:10:32] [SPEAKER_01]: I will call it

[00:10:33] [SPEAKER_01]: but if we don't

[00:10:34] [SPEAKER_01]: talk about love

[00:10:35] [SPEAKER_01]: then you can have it

[00:10:38] [SPEAKER_03]: I also love your work

[00:10:39] [SPEAKER_03]: but

[00:10:43] [SPEAKER_01]: if you are going to work

[00:10:45] [SPEAKER_01]: you can have it

[00:10:47] [SPEAKER_01]: about affection

[00:10:47] [SPEAKER_01]: about humanity

[00:10:48] [SPEAKER_01]: but also about love

[00:10:50] [SPEAKER_01]: but one of the things

[00:10:55] [SPEAKER_01]: that

[00:10:56] [SPEAKER_01]: I can tell the people

[00:10:59] [SPEAKER_01]: when they have

[00:11:01] [SPEAKER_01]: serious narcissism

[00:11:03] [SPEAKER_01]: I have to tell them

[00:11:05] [SPEAKER_01]: and sometimes it comes

[00:11:06] [SPEAKER_01]: very rarely inside

[00:11:07] [SPEAKER_01]: of the person you have lived with

[00:11:10] [SPEAKER_01]: for a few years

[00:11:11] [SPEAKER_01]: 20, 30, 40 years

[00:11:14] [SPEAKER_01]: she never loved you

[00:11:17] [SPEAKER_01]: because they couldn't

[00:11:18] [SPEAKER_01]: and the whole

[00:11:19] [SPEAKER_01]: the fact of the relationship

[00:11:21] [SPEAKER_01]: why they keep on going

[00:11:23] [SPEAKER_01]: that is based on that very small word

[00:11:26] [SPEAKER_01]: of three letters

[00:11:28] [SPEAKER_01]: love

[00:11:29] [SPEAKER_01]: and in a love

[00:11:30] [SPEAKER_01]: or romantic relationship

[00:11:33] [SPEAKER_01]: that is painful

[00:11:34] [SPEAKER_01]: because it is not

[00:11:36] [SPEAKER_01]: more than you have used

[00:11:38] [SPEAKER_01]: and misused for years

[00:11:41] [SPEAKER_01]: because you were useful

[00:11:43] [SPEAKER_01]: but that is

[00:11:44] [SPEAKER_01]: one of the big differences

[00:11:46] [SPEAKER_01]: if you have

[00:11:47] [SPEAKER_01]: work relationship

[00:11:49] [SPEAKER_01]: the basis of the work relationship

[00:11:52] [SPEAKER_01]: is actually love

[00:11:55] [SPEAKER_01]: and

[00:11:55] [SPEAKER_01]: the employer

[00:11:56] [SPEAKER_01]: will never accept you

[00:11:58] [SPEAKER_01]: if you are not useful

[00:12:00] [SPEAKER_01]: for the company or for him

[00:12:02] [SPEAKER_01]: or whatever

[00:12:03] [SPEAKER_01]: so the basis is totally different

[00:12:05] [SPEAKER_01]: but then

[00:12:06] [SPEAKER_01]: when it is about love

[00:12:10] [SPEAKER_01]: it is about

[00:12:12] [SPEAKER_01]: humanity, empathy

[00:12:15] [SPEAKER_01]: affection

[00:12:17] [SPEAKER_01]: and those are the things

[00:12:18] [SPEAKER_01]: that can also be done

[00:12:20] [SPEAKER_01]: in a company

[00:12:21] [SPEAKER_01]: and they make you

[00:12:22] [SPEAKER_01]: create an unhealthy work environment

[00:12:26] [SPEAKER_01]: but there

[00:12:28] [SPEAKER_01]: is no one of the basis

[00:12:30] [SPEAKER_01]: where that is in a relationship

[00:12:33] [SPEAKER_01]: ultimately

[00:12:34] [SPEAKER_01]: it is in a way

[00:12:36] [SPEAKER_01]: and it also plays in a relationship

[00:12:37] [SPEAKER_01]: but if

[00:12:39] [SPEAKER_01]: it is to say

[00:12:40] [SPEAKER_01]: your partner did not love you for 40 years

[00:12:44] [SPEAKER_01]: but you have been useful

[00:12:46] [SPEAKER_01]: you have brought money

[00:12:48] [SPEAKER_01]: or you have made sure for the children

[00:12:49] [SPEAKER_01]: or you would have done at home

[00:12:52] [SPEAKER_01]: or you are beautiful enough to be a prank

[00:12:53] [SPEAKER_01]: because there has always been something useful

[00:12:56] [SPEAKER_01]: otherwise

[00:12:57] [SPEAKER_01]: your assistant has no interest

[00:12:59] [SPEAKER_01]: no more you now

[00:13:00] [SPEAKER_01]: if you are not useful

[00:13:01] [SPEAKER_01]: in contrast with the relationship

[00:13:05] [SPEAKER_01]: and sometimes it is so nice to see

[00:13:06] [SPEAKER_01]: people who are getting older

[00:13:08] [SPEAKER_01]: and that one of the two gets sick

[00:13:10] [SPEAKER_01]: and then the partner

[00:13:12] [SPEAKER_01]: stays there for years

[00:13:14] [SPEAKER_01]: stays there for long

[00:13:14] [SPEAKER_01]: and then the assistant

[00:13:17] [SPEAKER_01]: it is not useful to me

[00:13:20] [SPEAKER_01]: I have a plan

[00:13:21] [SPEAKER_01]: I will take care of you

[00:13:23] [SPEAKER_01]: hopefully if you are happy

[00:13:25] [SPEAKER_01]: and otherwise not

[00:13:27] [SPEAKER_01]: but for a working situation

[00:13:29] [SPEAKER_01]: then of course everything else

[00:13:31] [SPEAKER_01]: we have to consider

[00:13:32] [SPEAKER_01]: if I am not useful

[00:13:33] [SPEAKER_01]: we do not have any place

[00:13:36] [SPEAKER_01]: but that does not mean

[00:13:37] [SPEAKER_01]: that there can be a relationship

[00:13:42] [SPEAKER_01]: I have to say

[00:13:43] [SPEAKER_01]: they talk more about business culture

[00:13:46] [SPEAKER_01]: I

[00:13:49] [SPEAKER_01]: in my previous

[00:13:51] [SPEAKER_01]: career

[00:13:52] [SPEAKER_01]: had to make a narcissism

[00:13:54] [SPEAKER_01]: several times

[00:13:56] [SPEAKER_01]: I did not recognize that

[00:13:57] [SPEAKER_01]: but that was

[00:13:58] [SPEAKER_01]: a base for me

[00:14:00] [SPEAKER_01]: where I had to walk around

[00:14:04] [SPEAKER_01]: in a way

[00:14:05] [SPEAKER_01]: but the real narcissist

[00:14:07] [SPEAKER_01]: I did not recognize him

[00:14:10] [SPEAKER_01]: because I knew he was a narcissist

[00:14:11] [SPEAKER_01]: because I did not know that word

[00:14:13] [SPEAKER_01]: but I knew

[00:14:16] [SPEAKER_01]: here comes the misery

[00:14:18] [SPEAKER_03]: and how do they say that

[00:14:20] [SPEAKER_03]: what did they say

[00:14:22] [SPEAKER_01]: or not about you

[00:14:24] [SPEAKER_01]: they should not do anything about it

[00:14:26] [SPEAKER_01]: in the way to live

[00:14:28] [SPEAKER_01]: I thought

[00:14:28] [SPEAKER_01]: we are there

[00:14:30] [SPEAKER_01]: business from my own life

[00:14:32] [SPEAKER_01]: I have worked in insurance for 17 years

[00:14:37] [SPEAKER_01]: and that was

[00:14:38] [SPEAKER_01]: at three different

[00:14:40] [SPEAKER_01]: companies

[00:14:41] [SPEAKER_01]: and my first company

[00:14:42] [SPEAKER_01]: were people

[00:14:45] [SPEAKER_01]: who

[00:14:46] [SPEAKER_01]: went to potential clients

[00:14:49] [SPEAKER_01]: they called advisors

[00:14:50] [SPEAKER_01]: and if you are a group advisor

[00:14:54] [SPEAKER_01]: under a regional

[00:14:56] [SPEAKER_01]: inspector

[00:14:57] [SPEAKER_01]: and I started

[00:15:00] [SPEAKER_01]: that was actually after my study

[00:15:02] [SPEAKER_01]: in 1990

[00:15:04] [SPEAKER_01]: I was studying

[00:15:05] [SPEAKER_01]: I was after

[00:15:06] [SPEAKER_01]: I was after study in 1990

[00:15:12] [SPEAKER_01]: and I wanted to find work

[00:15:13] [SPEAKER_01]: and that was

[00:15:15] [SPEAKER_01]: beginning of the first wave of work

[00:15:17] [SPEAKER_01]: so the business market was completely flat

[00:15:20] [SPEAKER_01]: but I had to

[00:15:21] [SPEAKER_01]: have absolutely work

[00:15:22] [SPEAKER_01]: and I am there to work for a insurance company

[00:15:26] [SPEAKER_01]: and because

[00:15:26] [SPEAKER_01]: I studied other sciences

[00:15:30] [SPEAKER_01]: I could talk to

[00:15:31] [SPEAKER_01]: with advisors

[00:15:33] [SPEAKER_01]: with book holders

[00:15:34] [SPEAKER_01]: with accountants

[00:15:35] [SPEAKER_01]: about

[00:15:38] [SPEAKER_01]: insurance in a company

[00:15:39] [SPEAKER_01]: and that is what I quickly

[00:15:42] [SPEAKER_01]: worked on

[00:15:43] [SPEAKER_01]: and became a regional director

[00:15:46] [SPEAKER_01]: and then we got a new colleague

[00:15:48] [SPEAKER_01]: and I still see

[00:15:51] [SPEAKER_01]: that group of

[00:15:53] [SPEAKER_01]: people

[00:15:53] [SPEAKER_01]: and the new colleague

[00:15:56] [SPEAKER_01]: is being introduced

[00:15:59] [SPEAKER_01]: and there was a young lady

[00:16:01] [SPEAKER_01]: and I see her

[00:16:02] [SPEAKER_01]: looking around

[00:16:03] [SPEAKER_01]: and I thought

[00:16:05] [SPEAKER_01]: here comes the trouble

[00:16:07] [SPEAKER_01]: and did you feel that?

[00:16:10] [SPEAKER_03]: there was something intuitive

[00:16:11] [SPEAKER_01]: but she also said

[00:16:14] [SPEAKER_01]: that

[00:16:15] [SPEAKER_01]: in the very early years

[00:16:17] [SPEAKER_01]: energy

[00:16:19] [SPEAKER_01]: is negative

[00:16:23] [SPEAKER_01]: my career

[00:16:24] [SPEAKER_01]: with that company

[00:16:26] [SPEAKER_01]: was over two years later

[00:16:28] [SPEAKER_01]: and

[00:16:30] [SPEAKER_01]: the trouble

[00:16:32] [SPEAKER_01]: was someone

[00:16:34] [SPEAKER_01]: who was narcissistic

[00:16:35] [SPEAKER_01]: and I knew it

[00:16:37] [SPEAKER_01]: but she used it

[00:16:41] [SPEAKER_01]: to filter out

[00:16:42] [SPEAKER_01]: everyone who was in the way

[00:16:45] [SPEAKER_01]: that year

[00:16:45] [SPEAKER_01]: but eventually she worked out him

[00:16:48] [SPEAKER_02]: really?

[00:16:49] [SPEAKER_01]: yes, I finally left

[00:16:53] [SPEAKER_01]: and

[00:16:54] [SPEAKER_01]: six months later

[00:16:56] [SPEAKER_01]: I was contacted

[00:16:58] [SPEAKER_01]: by the

[00:17:00] [SPEAKER_01]: chairman of the board

[00:17:01] [SPEAKER_01]: of the society, so we couldn't go higher

[00:17:04] [SPEAKER_01]: and they wanted

[00:17:06] [SPEAKER_01]: to interview me about what was going on

[00:17:08] [SPEAKER_01]: and then I did

[00:17:10] [SPEAKER_01]: the box quiz

[00:17:11] [SPEAKER_01]: of what I could find from the beginning

[00:17:14] [SPEAKER_01]: and I say look

[00:17:15] [SPEAKER_01]: I think it's nice that you're talking about it now

[00:17:18] [SPEAKER_01]: but I saw it

[00:17:20] [SPEAKER_01]: because

[00:17:22] [SPEAKER_01]: I was building a

[00:17:24] [SPEAKER_01]: banana

[00:17:24] [SPEAKER_01]: and that was

[00:17:26] [SPEAKER_01]: cut off

[00:17:27] [SPEAKER_01]: maybe it's better

[00:17:31] [SPEAKER_01]: than when I would have stayed

[00:17:32] [SPEAKER_01]: but I did

[00:17:33] [SPEAKER_01]: and then she

[00:17:38] [SPEAKER_01]: said

[00:17:39] [SPEAKER_01]: that she didn't forget a lesson

[00:17:40] [SPEAKER_01]: and she respected

[00:17:45] [SPEAKER_01]: and protected

[00:17:46] [SPEAKER_01]: her own hierarchy

[00:17:47] [SPEAKER_01]: because

[00:17:50] [SPEAKER_01]: there always comes

[00:17:51] [SPEAKER_01]: someone complaining

[00:17:53] [SPEAKER_01]: about one or the other

[00:17:55] [SPEAKER_01]: if you

[00:17:56] [SPEAKER_01]: solve it

[00:17:59] [SPEAKER_01]: but it doesn't matter

[00:18:01] [SPEAKER_01]: and what happened

[00:18:03] [SPEAKER_01]: here is that

[00:18:04] [SPEAKER_01]: you hit the alarm, that was a red flag

[00:18:07] [SPEAKER_01]: but then there was

[00:18:09] [SPEAKER_01]: another red flag

[00:18:10] [SPEAKER_01]: and eventually

[00:18:13] [SPEAKER_01]: red lights

[00:18:15] [SPEAKER_01]: on fire, alarm lights

[00:18:17] [SPEAKER_01]: then we have to do something

[00:18:19] [SPEAKER_01]: but for a lot of good

[00:18:21] [SPEAKER_01]: people came to the store

[00:18:24] [SPEAKER_01]: and

[00:18:25] [SPEAKER_03]: how did you

[00:18:27] [SPEAKER_03]: get that done?

[00:18:27] [SPEAKER_03]: that you went to the staff

[00:18:29] [SPEAKER_03]: or first

[00:18:31] [SPEAKER_03]: the staff was

[00:18:33] [SPEAKER_01]: not yet ready for us

[00:18:36] [SPEAKER_01]: that was

[00:18:37] [SPEAKER_01]: a time that you can no longer imagine

[00:18:39] [SPEAKER_01]: but it wasn't ready for us

[00:18:42] [SPEAKER_01]: I told that

[00:18:43] [SPEAKER_01]: the district manager

[00:18:47] [SPEAKER_01]: told

[00:18:48] [SPEAKER_01]: and

[00:18:49] [SPEAKER_01]: he said

[00:18:50] [SPEAKER_01]: we have to trust

[00:18:53] [SPEAKER_01]: the people who actually have it

[00:18:55] [SPEAKER_01]: now I have

[00:18:57] [SPEAKER_01]: the district manager

[00:18:58] [SPEAKER_01]: who told me about

[00:19:00] [SPEAKER_01]: another

[00:19:00] [SPEAKER_01]: I would call that

[00:19:05] [SPEAKER_01]: she would sell her own mother

[00:19:07] [SPEAKER_01]: if she could keep a job

[00:19:08] [SPEAKER_01]: so that was

[00:19:11] [SPEAKER_01]: she had to protect her own position

[00:19:13] [SPEAKER_01]: so

[00:19:14] [SPEAKER_01]: someone holding the hand above the head

[00:19:17] [SPEAKER_01]: to get out of there

[00:19:21] [SPEAKER_01]: is

[00:19:21] [SPEAKER_01]: in an undertaking

[00:19:25] [SPEAKER_01]: always

[00:19:27] [SPEAKER_01]: somewhere to assist

[00:19:28] [SPEAKER_01]: the question is

[00:19:30] [SPEAKER_01]: is the business culture

[00:19:31] [SPEAKER_01]: that it is protected from high-rise

[00:19:35] [SPEAKER_01]: that is very different

[00:19:37] [SPEAKER_01]: than

[00:19:38] [SPEAKER_01]: when you are

[00:19:39] [SPEAKER_01]: a top person

[00:19:41] [SPEAKER_01]: I would say

[00:19:42] [SPEAKER_01]: you have less chance that it is protected

[00:19:45] [SPEAKER_03]: I can see in situations

[00:19:47] [SPEAKER_03]: how people are

[00:19:49] [SPEAKER_03]: asked to

[00:19:54] [SPEAKER_03]: pause

[00:19:56] [SPEAKER_03]: because there are certain things

[00:19:59] happening

[00:20:00] [SPEAKER_03]: so

[00:20:02] [SPEAKER_03]: I think that

[00:20:03] [SPEAKER_03]: what you said is really recognizable

[00:20:05] [SPEAKER_03]: but I think

[00:20:07] [SPEAKER_03]: that it is not black and white

[00:20:10] [SPEAKER_03]: we mean it is everywhere

[00:20:11] [SPEAKER_03]: in every form of organization

[00:20:13] [SPEAKER_03]: that has a lot of possible organization forms

[00:20:16] [SPEAKER_03]: the command and control

[00:20:18] [SPEAKER_03]: the old model

[00:20:22] [SPEAKER_03]: that is a very classic organization

[00:20:24] [SPEAKER_03]: that will be very strong

[00:20:26] [SPEAKER_03]: then you have the extreme other side

[00:20:28] [SPEAKER_03]: where it is even controlled

[00:20:29] [SPEAKER_03]: and in most companies

[00:20:31] [SPEAKER_03]: there is a lack

[00:20:33] [SPEAKER_03]: of management

[00:20:36] [SPEAKER_03]: but there is

[00:20:37] [SPEAKER_03]: the feedback culture

[00:20:39] [SPEAKER_03]: is more

[00:20:40] [SPEAKER_03]: you see it more and more

[00:20:41] [SPEAKER_03]: and the media that is spreading it

[00:20:43] [SPEAKER_03]: look at Plopsaland

[00:20:45] [SPEAKER_03]: sorry, we are looking at Studio 100

[00:20:47] [SPEAKER_03]: or Plopsaland, one of the two

[00:20:49] [SPEAKER_03]: that is attached to toxic leadership

[00:20:55] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know

[00:20:56] [SPEAKER_03]: what it is

[00:20:57] [SPEAKER_03]: I do know

[00:20:58] [SPEAKER_03]: for every 100 euros you spend in Plopsaland

[00:21:00] [SPEAKER_03]: 40 euros margin

[00:21:02] [SPEAKER_03]: and that has been good enough

[00:21:04] [SPEAKER_03]: in KPI

[00:21:05] [SPEAKER_03]: so the goal is very medium

[00:21:08] [SPEAKER_03]: and yet

[00:21:08] [SPEAKER_03]: there is another management place

[00:21:11] [SPEAKER_03]: and it is effective in the whole culture

[00:21:14] [SPEAKER_03]: what you see is that it is never one person

[00:21:16] [SPEAKER_03]: and

[00:21:17] [SPEAKER_03]: I was in a conversation with Sofia

[00:21:20] [SPEAKER_03]: and

[00:21:21] [SPEAKER_03]: what you see when a new CEO comes

[00:21:24] [SPEAKER_03]: that he often

[00:21:25] [SPEAKER_03]: let new or happy captains

[00:21:29] [SPEAKER_03]: replace

[00:21:29] [SPEAKER_03]: to be asked

[00:21:32] [SPEAKER_03]: to change

[00:21:34] [SPEAKER_03]: or transformation

[00:21:36] [SPEAKER_03]: and you also have to change

[00:21:37] [SPEAKER_03]: the key positions

[00:21:37] [SPEAKER_03]: but as a result

[00:21:39] [SPEAKER_03]: more people are taking care of it

[00:21:42] [SPEAKER_03]: not always one person

[00:21:44] [SPEAKER_03]: but that one person is attracted

[00:21:46] [SPEAKER_03]: and that it is strengthened

[00:21:48] [SPEAKER_03]: to say that there is someone else

[00:21:49] [SPEAKER_03]: who is like this

[00:21:51] [SPEAKER_03]: I see that

[00:21:54] [SPEAKER_03]: as a reference

[00:21:56] [SPEAKER_03]: what you say

[00:22:00] [SPEAKER_01]: is very heavy

[00:22:01] [SPEAKER_01]: that

[00:22:02] [SPEAKER_01]: how it is above

[00:22:03] [SPEAKER_01]: is going down

[00:22:07] [SPEAKER_01]: what is happening now

[00:22:09] [SPEAKER_01]: and I will talk about the last decade

[00:22:11] [SPEAKER_01]: and that used to not be possible

[00:22:13] [SPEAKER_01]: that is what is happening down there

[00:22:15] [SPEAKER_01]: easier flow

[00:22:17] [SPEAKER_01]: up

[00:22:18] [SPEAKER_01]: and that was not the example

[00:22:21] [SPEAKER_01]: that I mentioned

[00:22:22] [SPEAKER_01]: is from the beginning of the 90's

[00:22:26] [SPEAKER_01]: where

[00:22:26] [SPEAKER_01]: what I did

[00:22:28] [SPEAKER_01]: was

[00:22:29] [SPEAKER_01]: you come over the battlefield

[00:22:30] [SPEAKER_01]: and he was killed

[00:22:33] [SPEAKER_03]: he didn't respect your hierarchy

[00:22:35] [SPEAKER_03]: so you are talking about a boss

[00:22:37] [SPEAKER_03]: but

[00:22:38] [SPEAKER_01]: you say there is a knowledge

[00:22:41] [SPEAKER_01]: but

[00:22:42] [SPEAKER_01]: it is not fundamentally changed

[00:22:46] [SPEAKER_01]: as you see

[00:22:47] [SPEAKER_01]: what has changed

[00:22:49] [SPEAKER_01]: that is that much more

[00:22:51] [SPEAKER_01]: the letters

[00:22:53] [SPEAKER_01]: I will say

[00:22:54] [SPEAKER_01]: have been drawn up

[00:22:55] [SPEAKER_01]: but the one

[00:22:58] [SPEAKER_01]: who is the clock

[00:23:00] [SPEAKER_01]: who

[00:23:04] [SPEAKER_01]: gets the misery

[00:23:06] [SPEAKER_01]: I think

[00:23:07] [SPEAKER_01]: now about all

[00:23:09] [SPEAKER_01]: situations where

[00:23:12] [SPEAKER_01]: I

[00:23:13] [SPEAKER_01]: could name a few names

[00:23:15] [SPEAKER_01]: but they are already so thick

[00:23:16] [SPEAKER_01]: I didn't have to

[00:23:19] [SPEAKER_01]: say

[00:23:20] [SPEAKER_01]: but there have been so many things

[00:23:22] [SPEAKER_01]: coming up

[00:23:24] [SPEAKER_01]: where they

[00:23:25] [SPEAKER_01]: the toxic

[00:23:28] [SPEAKER_01]: sick situations have been

[00:23:29] [SPEAKER_01]: blown up

[00:23:30] [SPEAKER_01]: because there are still people who are

[00:23:32] [SPEAKER_01]: forbidden to do that

[00:23:34] [SPEAKER_01]: and you have that in every organization

[00:23:38] [SPEAKER_01]: because if we talk about

[00:23:40] [SPEAKER_01]: ok narcissism at work

[00:23:41] [SPEAKER_01]: I have to do that

[00:23:43] [SPEAKER_01]: then it will be very difficult

[00:23:45] [SPEAKER_01]: to reach

[00:23:45] [SPEAKER_01]: the bottom

[00:23:47] [SPEAKER_01]: I learn my life

[00:23:49] [SPEAKER_01]: or do something together

[00:23:51] [SPEAKER_01]: and I am the clock driver

[00:23:53] [SPEAKER_03]: yes, my sense of honour

[00:23:55] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't think you are the clock driver

[00:23:57] [SPEAKER_03]: because I think

[00:23:58] [SPEAKER_03]: I am going to a different

[00:24:00] [SPEAKER_03]: and

[00:24:02] [SPEAKER_03]: we have to be able to

[00:24:05] [SPEAKER_03]: yes that is very true

[00:24:07] [SPEAKER_03]: but it seems

[00:24:08] [SPEAKER_03]: that is now very common

[00:24:11] [SPEAKER_03]: in my bubble

[00:24:12] [SPEAKER_03]: yes

[00:24:14] [SPEAKER_03]: if you

[00:24:18] [SPEAKER_03]: if you are going to break your drink

[00:24:19] [SPEAKER_03]: you feel for sure

[00:24:21] [SPEAKER_03]: and you feel it in my heart

[00:24:23] [SPEAKER_03]: then often

[00:24:24] [SPEAKER_03]: you will keep sitting

[00:24:27] [SPEAKER_03]: you will probably come back in a burnout

[00:24:30] [SPEAKER_03]: you will be a little sick

[00:24:32] [SPEAKER_03]: you will be at home

[00:24:36] [SPEAKER_03]: yes

[00:24:38] [SPEAKER_03]: and then the game begins

[00:24:40] [SPEAKER_03]: of course

[00:24:42] [SPEAKER_03]: and then you will have to go back

[00:24:42] [SPEAKER_03]: or so

[00:24:43] [SPEAKER_03]: or waiting until that management changes

[00:24:47] [SPEAKER_03]: or that it determines

[00:24:48] [SPEAKER_03]: and I think you can wait for a long time

[00:24:50] [SPEAKER_03]: to be honest

[00:24:53] [SPEAKER_01]: you are calling it

[00:24:55] [SPEAKER_01]: burnout

[00:24:57] [SPEAKER_01]: I am convinced

[00:24:59] [SPEAKER_01]: that there is much more burnout

[00:25:01] [SPEAKER_01]: without being created

[00:25:02] [SPEAKER_01]: by narcissism

[00:25:03] [SPEAKER_01]: then it will work

[00:25:04] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't think that

[00:25:06] [SPEAKER_03]: that is another discussion

[00:25:08] [SPEAKER_03]: I think

[00:25:10] [SPEAKER_03]: that context

[00:25:12] [SPEAKER_03]: in combination

[00:25:13] [SPEAKER_03]: is with people who know themselves

[00:25:14] [SPEAKER_03]: and give limits

[00:25:16] [SPEAKER_03]: who

[00:25:18] [SPEAKER_03]: in combination with police behaviour

[00:25:22] [SPEAKER_03]: and of course narcissism

[00:25:23] [SPEAKER_03]: which makes it very difficult

[00:25:24] [SPEAKER_03]: to manipulate

[00:25:26] [SPEAKER_03]: people who don't know

[00:25:28] [SPEAKER_03]: and who do it as normal

[00:25:32] [SPEAKER_03]: in the school

[00:25:32] [SPEAKER_03]: and even

[00:25:34] [SPEAKER_03]: when I was young

[00:25:35] [SPEAKER_03]: I saw a first job

[00:25:37] [SPEAKER_03]: because it is not ok

[00:25:40] [SPEAKER_03]: this kind of behaviour

[00:25:42] [SPEAKER_03]: I have people who are literally

[00:25:44] [SPEAKER_03]: shaking behind a desk

[00:25:45] [SPEAKER_03]: I said what was the difference

[00:25:47] [SPEAKER_03]: I was two minutes late

[00:25:49] [SPEAKER_03]: I am sorry

[00:25:50] [SPEAKER_03]: I am not sure if you are two minutes late

[00:25:53] [SPEAKER_03]: do your thing

[00:25:55] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't have to read my emails

[00:25:56] [SPEAKER_03]: I was like

[00:26:00] [SPEAKER_03]: I am not sure

[00:26:04] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know

[00:26:04] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know what you are doing in school

[00:26:06] [SPEAKER_03]: it is not ok that you have been in the school for 6 years

[00:26:09] [SPEAKER_03]: but you don't have a reference

[00:26:10] [SPEAKER_03]: you think it is normal

[00:26:12] [SPEAKER_03]: what should we listen to

[00:26:13] [SPEAKER_03]: on the basis of the basis

[00:26:17] [SPEAKER_01]: where does narcissism start

[00:26:18] [SPEAKER_01]: on the work of the things

[00:26:22] [SPEAKER_01]: that I think is clear

[00:26:24] [SPEAKER_01]: even in an environment

[00:26:27] [SPEAKER_01]: with toxic leadership

[00:26:29] [SPEAKER_01]: with an artistic base

[00:26:30] [SPEAKER_01]: or an artistic colleague

[00:26:34] [SPEAKER_01]: in one way

[00:26:35] [SPEAKER_01]: no one has the burden of that

[00:26:37] [SPEAKER_01]: and if you say

[00:26:38] [SPEAKER_01]: my basis is an artistic

[00:26:41] [SPEAKER_01]: then it should be a pleasure

[00:26:43] [SPEAKER_01]: said

[00:26:44] [SPEAKER_01]: hopefully an artistic

[00:26:45] [SPEAKER_01]: kind of trumpet in small

[00:26:49] [SPEAKER_01]: and then everybody will say

[00:26:51] [SPEAKER_01]: yes, that's the one

[00:26:52] [SPEAKER_01]: but

[00:26:53] [SPEAKER_01]: if you are afraid of artists

[00:26:56] [SPEAKER_01]: you can be more dangerous

[00:26:58] [SPEAKER_01]: in that context

[00:26:59] [SPEAKER_01]: because they choose a project

[00:27:01] [SPEAKER_01]: and for deaf artists

[00:27:03] [SPEAKER_01]: they have the quality

[00:27:06] [SPEAKER_01]: maybe I shouldn't call it quality

[00:27:08] [SPEAKER_01]: but they have the possibility

[00:27:10] [SPEAKER_01]: to

[00:27:11] [SPEAKER_01]: to quench people

[00:27:12] [SPEAKER_01]: in a disdainful way

[00:27:14] [SPEAKER_01]: that the environment itself doesn't pass

[00:27:18] [SPEAKER_01]: and that is

[00:27:19] [SPEAKER_01]: what is important in such a situation

[00:27:23] [SPEAKER_01]: how

[00:27:24] [SPEAKER_01]: do you start the cooperation with someone

[00:27:26] [SPEAKER_01]: because they have it

[00:27:28] [SPEAKER_01]: quickly and that's what I told

[00:27:30] [SPEAKER_01]: of the co-workers

[00:27:31] [SPEAKER_01]: who just came in

[00:27:34] [SPEAKER_01]: and I felt it

[00:27:35] [SPEAKER_01]: and they would feel it too

[00:27:38] [SPEAKER_01]: I was in that moment

[00:27:41] [SPEAKER_01]: mentioned that I said

[00:27:43] [SPEAKER_01]: they pick out the weak

[00:27:44] [SPEAKER_01]: I am totally not according to that word

[00:27:47] [SPEAKER_01]: what they do

[00:27:49] [SPEAKER_01]: they feel your

[00:27:51] [SPEAKER_01]: lack of quality

[00:27:53] [SPEAKER_01]: and lack of quality

[00:27:55] [SPEAKER_01]: can be explained in many different ways

[00:27:58] [SPEAKER_01]: first

[00:27:59] [SPEAKER_01]: and that's what I also wrote in my book

[00:28:01] [SPEAKER_01]: there are three

[00:28:02] [SPEAKER_01]: people who are very

[00:28:05] [SPEAKER_01]: typical

[00:28:06] [SPEAKER_01]: for people who are attracted to the sixth

[00:28:09] [SPEAKER_01]: and that's

[00:28:11] [SPEAKER_01]: mostly strong people

[00:28:14] [SPEAKER_01]: but strong people

[00:28:15] [SPEAKER_01]: in the sense of

[00:28:16] [SPEAKER_01]: your DNA that you are born with

[00:28:18] [SPEAKER_01]: but that has nothing to do

[00:28:20] [SPEAKER_01]: with your environment

[00:28:21] [SPEAKER_01]: or your diet

[00:28:22] [SPEAKER_01]: those are people

[00:28:24] [SPEAKER_01]: who are in for certain things

[00:28:27] [SPEAKER_01]: and who are

[00:28:28] [SPEAKER_01]: in for certain situations

[00:28:30] [SPEAKER_01]: are also in for certain things

[00:28:33] [SPEAKER_01]: that kind of thing

[00:28:36] [SPEAKER_01]: that's very different from an assistant

[00:28:38] [SPEAKER_01]: because they are often

[00:28:39] [SPEAKER_01]: highly sensitive people

[00:28:41] [SPEAKER_01]: and with that high sensitivity

[00:28:42] [SPEAKER_01]: I have people with a lot of empathy

[00:28:45] [SPEAKER_01]: people with a lot of sense of responsibility

[00:28:48] [SPEAKER_01]: people who

[00:28:49] [SPEAKER_01]: help other people

[00:28:50] [SPEAKER_01]: and those characteristics

[00:28:52] [SPEAKER_01]: are interesting

[00:28:54] [SPEAKER_01]: as well as for a partner

[00:28:56] [SPEAKER_01]: as at work

[00:28:58] [SPEAKER_01]: if I give up on that

[00:29:00] [SPEAKER_01]: you will see that that

[00:29:02] [SPEAKER_01]: that nerd takes that sensitivity

[00:29:04] [SPEAKER_01]: and if I lay a little bit above that

[00:29:06] [SPEAKER_01]: he will do that too

[00:29:09] [SPEAKER_01]: and then you have the third

[00:29:10] [SPEAKER_01]: the low value of the third

[00:29:14] [SPEAKER_01]: and then someone will be vulnerable

[00:29:14] [SPEAKER_01]: and that's something

[00:29:17] [SPEAKER_01]: and I have explained that

[00:29:18] [SPEAKER_01]: in narcissism and in relationships

[00:29:21] [SPEAKER_01]: but that is just as good

[00:29:23] [SPEAKER_01]: in work relationships

[00:29:25] [SPEAKER_01]: an assistant has

[00:29:27] [SPEAKER_01]: a low value of self

[00:29:30] [SPEAKER_01]: otherwise

[00:29:31] [SPEAKER_01]: we would be a part of an assistant

[00:29:34] [SPEAKER_01]: but a

[00:29:35] [SPEAKER_01]: an assistant has a low value of self

[00:29:38] [SPEAKER_01]: and that is the ownership

[00:29:40] [SPEAKER_01]: of self

[00:29:42] [SPEAKER_01]: people are instinctive

[00:29:44] [SPEAKER_01]: other people

[00:29:45] [SPEAKER_01]: with a similar level

[00:29:47] [SPEAKER_01]: of self value

[00:29:49] [SPEAKER_01]: that you want to say that assistant

[00:29:50] [SPEAKER_01]: who might come in

[00:29:51] [SPEAKER_01]: I am here

[00:29:54] [SPEAKER_01]: I will take that over

[00:29:56] [SPEAKER_01]: behind the mask is such a small person

[00:29:59] [SPEAKER_01]: but that spot is also

[00:30:01] [SPEAKER_01]: different from someone else

[00:30:03] [SPEAKER_01]: so that's the one I have to have

[00:30:05] [SPEAKER_01]: that will do for me

[00:30:07] [SPEAKER_01]: but if that person

[00:30:10] [SPEAKER_01]: who

[00:30:12] [SPEAKER_01]: he spot

[00:30:13] [SPEAKER_01]: or he is spot

[00:30:14] [SPEAKER_01]: it will be dangerous

[00:30:18] [SPEAKER_03]: that's mainly that

[00:30:19] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't think that because it is said

[00:30:20] [SPEAKER_03]: that it is weaker, I don't think it is weaker

[00:30:22] [SPEAKER_03]: I think that there is

[00:30:23] [SPEAKER_03]: if that person came to me

[00:30:25] [SPEAKER_03]: I will use that

[00:30:27] [SPEAKER_03]: but if that person is in the way

[00:30:29] [SPEAKER_03]: or can be dangerous

[00:30:30] [SPEAKER_03]: or my power structure

[00:30:32] [SPEAKER_03]: and the way it is

[00:30:34] [SPEAKER_03]: because it speaks about companies

[00:30:35] [SPEAKER_03]: I think that it happens

[00:30:37] [SPEAKER_03]: in government institutions

[00:30:39] [SPEAKER_01]: so that

[00:30:42] [SPEAKER_03]: especially that there is a hierarchy

[00:30:44] [SPEAKER_03]: that it happens

[00:30:46] [SPEAKER_03]: and that

[00:30:47] [SPEAKER_03]: how can I put that person in

[00:30:49] [SPEAKER_03]: to do my work

[00:30:50] [SPEAKER_03]: or if he or she walks away

[00:30:53] [SPEAKER_03]: from

[00:30:54] [SPEAKER_03]: that can be dangerous

[00:30:56] [SPEAKER_03]: and can be seen by me

[00:30:58] [SPEAKER_03]: and there are often the strengths

[00:31:00] [SPEAKER_01]: but the strengths they want

[00:31:02] [SPEAKER_01]: to have away

[00:31:03] [SPEAKER_03]: because they are the others

[00:31:05] [SPEAKER_03]: that they can call a sheep

[00:31:07] [SPEAKER_03]: they will stay

[00:31:10] [SPEAKER_03]: they will do what they want

[00:31:13] [SPEAKER_03]: or

[00:31:14] [SPEAKER_03]: they can play

[00:31:16] [SPEAKER_03]: that they

[00:31:18] [SPEAKER_03]: look up

[00:31:20] [SPEAKER_03]: to that person

[00:31:22] [SPEAKER_03]: because he can

[00:31:24] [SPEAKER_03]: line out, visually, strategically

[00:31:27] [SPEAKER_03]: or

[00:31:28] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know

[00:31:30] [SPEAKER_03]: and even with money

[00:31:31] [SPEAKER_03]: or with bonuses, I know a lot of things

[00:31:33] [SPEAKER_03]: or even hands above it

[00:31:35] [SPEAKER_03]: or giving them the gifts

[00:31:37] [SPEAKER_03]: that at first they say

[00:31:39] [SPEAKER_03]: forgiveness is necessary

[00:31:41] [SPEAKER_03]: to be someone

[00:31:42] [SPEAKER_01]: because you are talking about organization

[00:31:46] [SPEAKER_01]: that's something you have to keep

[00:31:48] [SPEAKER_01]: in mind

[00:31:49] [SPEAKER_01]: then that will be all possible means

[00:31:52] [SPEAKER_01]: to

[00:31:53] [SPEAKER_01]: to achieve what he wants

[00:31:55] [SPEAKER_01]: and to reach in career

[00:31:58] [SPEAKER_01]: without

[00:31:59] [SPEAKER_01]: scrapels

[00:32:00] [SPEAKER_01]: and there he already has a bonus

[00:32:03] [SPEAKER_01]: in view of someone who does have

[00:32:05] [SPEAKER_01]: scrapels, that means

[00:32:06] [SPEAKER_01]: if you want to use all of it

[00:32:08] [SPEAKER_01]: the one without scrapels

[00:32:11] [SPEAKER_01]: he has the way free

[00:32:13] [SPEAKER_01]: the other one may be stopped

[00:32:15] [SPEAKER_01]: by ethical

[00:32:17] [SPEAKER_01]: problems or respect

[00:32:19] [SPEAKER_01]: for someone else

[00:32:20] [SPEAKER_01]: or empathy for someone else

[00:32:22] [SPEAKER_01]: but not for the assistant

[00:32:24] [SPEAKER_01]: but that doesn't mean

[00:32:26] [SPEAKER_01]: that the assistant

[00:32:28] [SPEAKER_01]: can't be people with a lot of

[00:32:31] [SPEAKER_01]: quality

[00:32:33] [SPEAKER_01]: the example I always find

[00:32:35] [SPEAKER_01]: when I start

[00:32:37] [SPEAKER_01]: with

[00:32:38] [SPEAKER_01]: my practice

[00:32:40] [SPEAKER_01]: then there is someone

[00:32:42] [SPEAKER_01]: in my right environment

[00:32:43] [SPEAKER_01]: had a long discussion

[00:32:45] [SPEAKER_01]: because the idea was

[00:32:48] [SPEAKER_01]: but you are going to all people

[00:32:49] [SPEAKER_01]: who are an assistant

[00:32:51] [SPEAKER_01]: or I say no

[00:32:53] [SPEAKER_01]: that's totally not true

[00:32:54] [SPEAKER_01]: there are situations

[00:32:56] [SPEAKER_01]: where you have to

[00:32:58] [SPEAKER_01]: take economic

[00:33:00] [SPEAKER_01]: attention from the ethical

[00:33:03] [SPEAKER_01]: attention

[00:33:03] [SPEAKER_01]: and one of the things I always

[00:33:05] [SPEAKER_01]: find a good example

[00:33:06] [SPEAKER_01]: is that I have an iPhone

[00:33:09] [SPEAKER_01]: I have a lot of people here

[00:33:12] [SPEAKER_01]: Apple, I am a fan

[00:33:15] [SPEAKER_01]: of Apple products

[00:33:17] [SPEAKER_01]: but the visionary

[00:33:20] [SPEAKER_01]: Steve Jobs

[00:33:21] [SPEAKER_01]: was an excellent assistant

[00:33:23] [SPEAKER_01]: who couldn't work with anyone

[00:33:25] [SPEAKER_01]: could work together

[00:33:28] [SPEAKER_01]: that

[00:33:29] [SPEAKER_01]: they two are not together anymore

[00:33:31] [SPEAKER_03]: plus he has never put

[00:33:32] [SPEAKER_03]: his own company

[00:33:34] [SPEAKER_03]: and then the company

[00:33:36] [SPEAKER_03]: went down the drain and then he got back

[00:33:37] [SPEAKER_03]: and then the iPhone

[00:33:41] [SPEAKER_03]: it's from the iPod channel

[00:33:42] [SPEAKER_01]: I know that

[00:33:43] [SPEAKER_01]: I have read that

[00:33:45] [SPEAKER_01]: to

[00:33:46] [SPEAKER_01]: look at his soul

[00:33:49] [SPEAKER_01]: it was

[00:33:51] [SPEAKER_01]: a very talented man

[00:33:55] [SPEAKER_01]: a searcher

[00:33:56] [SPEAKER_01]: a searcher

[00:33:59] [SPEAKER_01]: and that is

[00:34:00] [SPEAKER_01]: the ethical

[00:34:03] [SPEAKER_01]: about the economic

[00:34:05] [SPEAKER_01]: now says Schaar Haldi

[00:34:07] [SPEAKER_01]: assistant or the same

[00:34:09] [SPEAKER_01]: yes then you also have

[00:34:10] [SPEAKER_01]: healthy people

[00:34:11] [SPEAKER_03]: yes but not only that

[00:34:13] [SPEAKER_03]: the weird thing

[00:34:14] [SPEAKER_03]: is that you are so believe

[00:34:17] [SPEAKER_03]: that they have a low self-image

[00:34:20] [SPEAKER_03]: then they are so much

[00:34:21] [SPEAKER_03]: to prove themselves

[00:34:23] [SPEAKER_03]: or to put something in the world

[00:34:24] [SPEAKER_03]: to fill that ego

[00:34:26] [SPEAKER_03]: or fill that hole in yourself

[00:34:27] [SPEAKER_03]: with the result that they are in state

[00:34:30] [SPEAKER_03]: to really become Elon Musk

[00:34:32] [SPEAKER_03]: not even protected as the people with the high EQ

[00:34:35] [SPEAKER_03]: but yes

[00:34:36] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't mind

[00:34:38] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't mind

[00:34:39] [SPEAKER_01]: what I think of Musk

[00:34:42] [SPEAKER_03]: but you can also say that

[00:34:44] [SPEAKER_01]: but yes

[00:34:46] [SPEAKER_01]: I think in the world

[00:34:49] [SPEAKER_01]: now

[00:34:50] [SPEAKER_01]: you said there is a point

[00:34:51] [SPEAKER_01]: it's not like

[00:34:53] [SPEAKER_01]: a very low self-image

[00:34:56] [SPEAKER_01]: an extra drain

[00:34:58] [SPEAKER_01]: is to prove something

[00:35:00] [SPEAKER_01]: you shouldn't forget

[00:35:02] [SPEAKER_01]: the end goal of an assistant

[00:35:04] [SPEAKER_01]: is always

[00:35:05] [SPEAKER_01]: his ego

[00:35:07] [SPEAKER_01]: that is and that remains the goal

[00:35:10] [SPEAKER_01]: how he is as a human

[00:35:12] [SPEAKER_01]: he doesn't care about himself

[00:35:14] [SPEAKER_01]: but his ego

[00:35:14] [SPEAKER_01]: and the status that

[00:35:16] [SPEAKER_01]: that ego is

[00:35:19] [SPEAKER_01]: where it revolves

[00:35:21] [SPEAKER_01]: always

[00:35:23] [SPEAKER_01]: so there is a point

[00:35:26] [SPEAKER_01]: that you say that can be an extra drain

[00:35:28] [SPEAKER_01]: but

[00:35:30] [SPEAKER_03]: I can read twice

[00:35:33] [SPEAKER_03]: I was at a

[00:35:35] [SPEAKER_03]: first community festival

[00:35:36] [SPEAKER_03]: and there was a psychologist next to me

[00:35:39] [SPEAKER_03]: and after

[00:35:40] [SPEAKER_03]: who are you

[00:35:42] [SPEAKER_03]: what is the relationship here

[00:35:44] [SPEAKER_03]: of the situation

[00:35:45] [SPEAKER_03]: it was about psychology

[00:35:47] [SPEAKER_03]: and it was about narcissism

[00:35:49] [SPEAKER_03]: how that came about

[00:35:50] [SPEAKER_03]: and he said yes

[00:35:52] [SPEAKER_03]: I am specialized in that

[00:35:54] [SPEAKER_03]: because I had to

[00:35:55] [SPEAKER_03]: and then he says

[00:35:56] [SPEAKER_03]: do you hit your son

[00:35:58] [SPEAKER_03]: say no

[00:35:58] [SPEAKER_03]: and manipulate him

[00:36:01] [SPEAKER_03]: say no

[00:36:02] [SPEAKER_03]: then it's a very small chance

[00:36:05] [SPEAKER_03]: that he will once be successful

[00:36:06] [SPEAKER_03]: in music career or TV world

[00:36:08] [SPEAKER_03]: because there is a lot of narcissism

[00:36:11] [SPEAKER_03]: because of the caret

[00:36:12] [SPEAKER_03]: that you have to do

[00:36:14] [SPEAKER_03]: and that is very extreme

[00:36:15] [SPEAKER_03]: and he said

[00:36:17] [SPEAKER_03]: that there is a food base

[00:36:20] [SPEAKER_03]: is the entrepreneur who is something

[00:36:26] [SPEAKER_03]: that is going on in the music world

[00:36:26] [SPEAKER_03]: or artists or actors

[00:36:27] [SPEAKER_03]: in the world

[00:36:29] [SPEAKER_03]: I think that we are a bit too black and white

[00:36:32] [SPEAKER_03]: to go like that

[00:36:34] [SPEAKER_03]: but now

[00:36:35] [SPEAKER_03]: something else

[00:36:36] [SPEAKER_03]: the lifetimes

[00:36:39] [SPEAKER_03]: there is so much

[00:36:40] [SPEAKER_03]: Gen Z to stand

[00:36:42] [SPEAKER_03]: I also asked that many times

[00:36:44] [SPEAKER_03]: a few years later

[00:36:47] [SPEAKER_03]: the Gen X

[00:36:48] [SPEAKER_03]: and certainly the boomers

[00:36:49] [SPEAKER_03]: from the business world

[00:36:51] [SPEAKER_03]: will go on

[00:36:52] [SPEAKER_03]: is that

[00:36:54] [SPEAKER_03]: does that also mean

[00:36:56] [SPEAKER_03]: the young people who are children

[00:36:59] [SPEAKER_03]: who will probably also be a narcissistic

[00:37:01] [SPEAKER_03]: think

[00:37:02] [SPEAKER_03]: does that also mean

[00:37:05] [SPEAKER_03]: 20 plus years of age

[00:37:08] [SPEAKER_03]: is that also

[00:37:10] [SPEAKER_01]: there?

[00:37:10] [SPEAKER_01]: absolutely

[00:37:13] [SPEAKER_01]: I haven't lived long enough

[00:37:16] [SPEAKER_01]: to see it in different generations

[00:37:18] [SPEAKER_01]: because

[00:37:18] [SPEAKER_01]: how young people are

[00:37:20] [SPEAKER_03]: and how old people are

[00:37:23] [SPEAKER_01]: here I am very young

[00:37:26] [SPEAKER_01]: underneath that

[00:37:27] [SPEAKER_01]: it starts to become something less

[00:37:28] [SPEAKER_01]: but I mean

[00:37:30] [SPEAKER_01]: everyone asks me

[00:37:32] [SPEAKER_01]: does that not come for a seller

[00:37:34] [SPEAKER_01]: what you have now

[00:37:36] [SPEAKER_01]: is not with the young

[00:37:39] [SPEAKER_01]: with the young

[00:37:40] [SPEAKER_01]: what you do get

[00:37:43] [SPEAKER_01]: and that you may have asked less

[00:37:46] [SPEAKER_01]: that is

[00:37:48] [SPEAKER_01]: sorry for the young

[00:37:49] [SPEAKER_01]: who are young

[00:37:50] [SPEAKER_01]: but

[00:37:51] [SPEAKER_01]: the divorce and the

[00:37:55] [SPEAKER_01]: newly-established families

[00:37:56] [SPEAKER_01]: are not always

[00:37:59] [SPEAKER_01]: the food base for a warm home

[00:38:01] [SPEAKER_01]: for a child

[00:38:02] [SPEAKER_01]: that can be the case

[00:38:04] [SPEAKER_01]: but for the same money

[00:38:05] [SPEAKER_01]: not

[00:38:08] [SPEAKER_01]: divorce always have repercussions

[00:38:10] [SPEAKER_01]: for children

[00:38:11] [SPEAKER_01]: and children are sometimes good

[00:38:13] [SPEAKER_01]: and sometimes not good

[00:38:14] [SPEAKER_01]: with him

[00:38:15] [SPEAKER_01]: especially if you

[00:38:17] [SPEAKER_01]: divorce one of the parents

[00:38:19] [SPEAKER_01]: is a narcissistic

[00:38:22] [SPEAKER_03]: then it is the divorce

[00:38:23] [SPEAKER_01]: then it is a divorce

[00:38:25] [SPEAKER_01]: and that means

[00:38:26] [SPEAKER_01]: that child is judged

[00:38:28] [SPEAKER_01]: that child is manipulated

[00:38:30] [SPEAKER_01]: for the rest of his or her life

[00:38:32] [SPEAKER_01]: when the parents would stay together

[00:38:36] [SPEAKER_01]: they would do that

[00:38:37] [SPEAKER_01]: but divorce is

[00:38:39] [SPEAKER_01]: above that

[00:38:40] [SPEAKER_01]: is an extra factor

[00:38:41] [SPEAKER_01]: that makes it difficult

[00:38:42] [SPEAKER_01]: and what I see with the eyes of the

[00:38:48] [SPEAKER_01]: I have always kept that

[00:38:51] [SPEAKER_01]: from that

[00:38:52] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't coach children

[00:38:55] [SPEAKER_01]: in that sense

[00:38:56] [SPEAKER_01]: young people sometimes come to me

[00:38:59] [SPEAKER_01]: but the young is 20 plus

[00:39:01] [SPEAKER_01]: the young is 20 plus

[00:39:05] [SPEAKER_01]: yes

[00:39:06] [SPEAKER_01]: if there are young people

[00:39:08] [SPEAKER_01]: come to me, together with parents

[00:39:10] [SPEAKER_01]: or so

[00:39:11] [SPEAKER_01]: but I tell children

[00:39:13] [SPEAKER_01]: I will never say

[00:39:13] [SPEAKER_01]: I have had a lower school life

[00:39:15] [SPEAKER_01]: I have had puberty

[00:39:18] [SPEAKER_01]: but young I just don't want

[00:39:21] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't have any training for that

[00:39:25] [SPEAKER_01]: although

[00:39:25] [SPEAKER_01]: I have done a training for that

[00:39:28] [SPEAKER_01]: because I used to do

[00:39:32] [SPEAKER_01]: not be pedagogical

[00:39:34] [SPEAKER_01]: to be in the education of children

[00:39:36] [SPEAKER_01]: that is something totally different

[00:39:38] [SPEAKER_01]: but I do hear

[00:39:39] [SPEAKER_01]: from the parents who are working with me

[00:39:42] [SPEAKER_01]: that they see

[00:39:44] [SPEAKER_01]: my child has problems

[00:39:46] [SPEAKER_01]: what should I do with it

[00:39:48] [SPEAKER_01]: that is always the best way

[00:39:50] [SPEAKER_01]: to

[00:39:51] [SPEAKER_01]: take care of yourself

[00:39:54] [SPEAKER_01]: that you are in your power

[00:39:56] [SPEAKER_01]: that you have love

[00:39:58] [SPEAKER_01]: and for your child

[00:39:59] [SPEAKER_01]: but the young generation

[00:40:01] [SPEAKER_01]: has just as well

[00:40:03] [SPEAKER_01]: to make my assistant

[00:40:03] [SPEAKER_01]: like every generation

[00:40:07] [SPEAKER_01]: every generation

[00:40:09] [SPEAKER_01]: and

[00:40:11] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if that used to be

[00:40:12] [SPEAKER_01]: at school, but if you hear

[00:40:15] [SPEAKER_01]: and that doesn't come

[00:40:16] [SPEAKER_01]: news because all those things

[00:40:18] [SPEAKER_01]: are more open

[00:40:19] [SPEAKER_01]: how many children are best at school

[00:40:23] [SPEAKER_01]: the best are assistants

[00:40:25] [SPEAKER_01]: you have

[00:40:30] [SPEAKER_03]: I think

[00:40:30] [SPEAKER_03]: we are going to stop

[00:40:32] [SPEAKER_03]: I think there is more being done

[00:40:34] [SPEAKER_03]: than before

[00:40:35] [SPEAKER_03]: and that has always been a lot

[00:40:38] [SPEAKER_03]: only the media is smilting

[00:40:40] [SPEAKER_03]: from that kind of attitude

[00:40:41] [SPEAKER_03]: in combination with social media

[00:40:43] [SPEAKER_03]: where children are being sold together

[00:40:45] [SPEAKER_03]: they film it

[00:40:47] [SPEAKER_03]: and then it comes to the latest news

[00:40:48] [SPEAKER_03]: and sells a lot of books

[00:40:49] [SPEAKER_03]: although I think that has always been

[00:40:52] [SPEAKER_03]: that way

[00:40:57] [SPEAKER_03]: when school was over

[00:40:58] [SPEAKER_03]: there was no social media

[00:41:01] [SPEAKER_03]: and while it continues

[00:41:03] [SPEAKER_03]: but when it comes to

[00:41:05] [SPEAKER_03]: that I can imagine

[00:41:06] [SPEAKER_03]: that it is terrible for those children

[00:41:08] [SPEAKER_03]: that is something I am very aware of

[00:41:10] [SPEAKER_03]: the moment I see it

[00:41:12] [SPEAKER_03]: it comes in a completely different

[00:41:15] [SPEAKER_03]: new environment

[00:41:15] [SPEAKER_03]: because it happened to me before

[00:41:18] [SPEAKER_03]: and that was the solution

[00:41:20] [SPEAKER_03]: but I don't know if that

[00:41:23] [SPEAKER_03]: does not matter

[00:41:25] [SPEAKER_01]: I have been in a school

[00:41:27] [SPEAKER_01]: school, running, playing

[00:41:28] [SPEAKER_01]: in a girl's school

[00:41:30] [SPEAKER_01]: maybe also

[00:41:34] [SPEAKER_01]: I feel much healthier

[00:41:36] [SPEAKER_01]: when we go to school together

[00:41:39] [SPEAKER_01]: but that gives

[00:41:39] [SPEAKER_01]: another kind of conflict

[00:41:44] [SPEAKER_01]: I listen to your questions

[00:41:47] [SPEAKER_03]: no no no

[00:41:49] [SPEAKER_03]: but well

[00:41:50] [SPEAKER_01]: they call it flow

[00:41:53] [SPEAKER_03]: with old man's ears

[00:41:54] [SPEAKER_03]: so that's how we talk

[00:41:59] [SPEAKER_03]: I stay at my stand

[00:42:01] [SPEAKER_03]: and you don't feel good

[00:42:03] [SPEAKER_03]: and you can

[00:42:04] [SPEAKER_03]: if there's a problem

[00:42:08] [SPEAKER_03]: professionally

[00:42:09] [SPEAKER_03]: I think you should take responsibility

[00:42:11] [SPEAKER_03]: no matter what

[00:42:14] [SPEAKER_03]: and go away

[00:42:16] [SPEAKER_03]: or look for a different job

[00:42:17] [SPEAKER_03]: or find a different situation

[00:42:19] [SPEAKER_03]: and look for

[00:42:20] [SPEAKER_03]: I stay at my stand

[00:42:23] [SPEAKER_03]: if that is too negative

[00:42:25] [SPEAKER_03]: to say

[00:42:27] [SPEAKER_03]: there is a situation

[00:42:28] [SPEAKER_03]: where you can be on such a stand

[00:42:31] [SPEAKER_03]: and also teach

[00:42:32] [SPEAKER_03]: that you never see

[00:42:35] [SPEAKER_03]: and they just let me do

[00:42:38] [SPEAKER_03]: more

[00:42:38] [SPEAKER_03]: and they are with me

[00:42:39] [SPEAKER_03]: whatever I know what they are doing

[00:42:43] [SPEAKER_03]: or in all Excel meetings

[00:42:45] [SPEAKER_03]: but

[00:42:46] [SPEAKER_03]: but other than

[00:42:47] [SPEAKER_03]: if you are in high spirits

[00:42:50] [SPEAKER_03]: and you continue

[00:42:52] [SPEAKER_03]: to bear the burden

[00:42:54] [SPEAKER_03]: where you continue

[00:42:56] [SPEAKER_03]: to get sick

[00:42:58] [SPEAKER_03]: you don't have to say

[00:43:00] [SPEAKER_03]: that you should stay

[00:43:01] [SPEAKER_03]: or you can go to another division

[00:43:03] [SPEAKER_01]: if I understand you well

[00:43:06] [SPEAKER_01]: then you say

[00:43:07] [SPEAKER_01]: I learn from my stand

[00:43:08] [SPEAKER_01]: it's better to go away

[00:43:11] [SPEAKER_01]: than to stay

[00:43:12] [SPEAKER_01]: in a toxic environment

[00:43:14] [SPEAKER_01]: if it's bad

[00:43:16] [SPEAKER_03]: you really hurt yourself

[00:43:18] [SPEAKER_03]: if you have something

[00:43:20] [SPEAKER_03]: I accept it

[00:43:22] [SPEAKER_03]: and it is what it is

[00:43:23] [SPEAKER_03]: one person has a lot of feelings

[00:43:25] [SPEAKER_03]: and there is also

[00:43:26] [SPEAKER_03]: my self

[00:43:29] [SPEAKER_03]: being in a situation

[00:43:30] [SPEAKER_03]: where you are in a situation

[00:43:32] [SPEAKER_01]: but there you put your finger

[00:43:36] [SPEAKER_01]: on the very place

[00:43:38] [SPEAKER_01]: because I would say

[00:43:39] [SPEAKER_01]: if you have that point

[00:43:40] [SPEAKER_01]: then I would have to meet your half way

[00:43:45] [SPEAKER_01]: it's always better

[00:43:46] [SPEAKER_01]: to go away

[00:43:47] [SPEAKER_01]: than to stay

[00:43:48] [SPEAKER_01]: in a very toxic

[00:43:50] [SPEAKER_01]: destructive environment

[00:43:52] [SPEAKER_01]: especially if you feel

[00:43:55] [SPEAKER_01]: that it has an impact

[00:43:56] [SPEAKER_01]: on your private life

[00:43:58] [SPEAKER_01]: on your health

[00:43:59] [SPEAKER_01]: quality of life

[00:44:02] [SPEAKER_01]: but changing is not always the solution

[00:44:05] [SPEAKER_01]: if you change

[00:44:06] [SPEAKER_01]: then you also have to

[00:44:08] [SPEAKER_01]: look at

[00:44:09] [SPEAKER_01]: what has made me

[00:44:12] [SPEAKER_01]: that I have

[00:44:15] [SPEAKER_01]: approached that person

[00:44:16] [SPEAKER_01]: and

[00:44:17] [SPEAKER_01]: that the desire

[00:44:20] [SPEAKER_01]: was to do with me

[00:44:21] [SPEAKER_01]: and not with my own work

[00:44:23] [SPEAKER_01]: and that is very important

[00:44:24] [SPEAKER_03]: I am convinced

[00:44:28] that

[00:44:31] [SPEAKER_03]: your vibe attracts your tribe

[00:44:33] [SPEAKER_03]: and you want to say

[00:44:34] [SPEAKER_03]: like you just said

[00:44:36] [SPEAKER_03]: people with low values

[00:44:37] [SPEAKER_03]: attract other people

[00:44:39] [SPEAKER_03]: so you are very hard in love relations

[00:44:43] [SPEAKER_03]: or

[00:44:44] [SPEAKER_03]: or rather

[00:44:46] [SPEAKER_03]: physical relations

[00:44:47] [SPEAKER_03]: or whatever you want to call it

[00:44:50] [SPEAKER_03]: if I say

[00:44:52] [SPEAKER_03]: the triggers you have

[00:44:54] [SPEAKER_03]: on that one work

[00:44:55] [SPEAKER_03]: will come back in other situations

[00:44:58] [SPEAKER_03]: and if you don't

[00:45:00] [SPEAKER_03]: if you change

[00:45:00] [SPEAKER_03]: and you don't

[00:45:02] [SPEAKER_03]: you put all the responsibility

[00:45:04] [SPEAKER_03]: in the other way that you leave

[00:45:05] [SPEAKER_03]: then it will come back in the same way

[00:45:07] [SPEAKER_03]: you say ok I pull a line

[00:45:10] [SPEAKER_03]: and I let myself be happy

[00:45:12] [SPEAKER_03]: and I give myself love

[00:45:14] [SPEAKER_03]: etc etc

[00:45:15] [SPEAKER_03]: and I think that I have approached that

[00:45:19] [SPEAKER_03]: so take responsibility

[00:45:20] [SPEAKER_03]: then I think that

[00:45:21] [SPEAKER_03]: that is the second combination

[00:45:22] [SPEAKER_03]: but simply go away to go away

[00:45:25] [SPEAKER_03]: you will be confronted with yourself

[00:45:26] [SPEAKER_03]: especially in a fixed way

[00:45:28] [SPEAKER_03]: because early Vlaats

[00:45:29] [SPEAKER_03]: comes in one or the other form

[00:45:32] [SPEAKER_03]: and sometimes maybe in

[00:45:33] [SPEAKER_03]: a form

[00:45:35] [SPEAKER_03]: that you don't recognize at first

[00:45:37] [SPEAKER_03]: because

[00:45:40] [SPEAKER_03]: there is

[00:45:41] [SPEAKER_03]: but you take the

[00:45:44] [SPEAKER_03]: overhead instances

[00:45:45] [SPEAKER_03]: then the business world

[00:45:47] [SPEAKER_03]: start-up scale or more the corporate world

[00:45:49] [SPEAKER_03]: you have in Vlaanderen

[00:45:51] [SPEAKER_03]: a whole spiritual world

[00:45:53] [SPEAKER_03]: everything is love

[00:45:54] [SPEAKER_03]: there are even narcissists

[00:45:57] [SPEAKER_03]: just the same

[00:45:57] [SPEAKER_03]: you see those people

[00:45:59] [SPEAKER_03]: you see certain people

[00:46:00] [SPEAKER_03]: that you think that

[00:46:02] [SPEAKER_03]: that is the purest narcissism

[00:46:04] [SPEAKER_03]: you take it in one of the gurus

[00:46:06] [SPEAKER_03]: that you think that

[00:46:07] [SPEAKER_03]: seriously

[00:46:08] [SPEAKER_03]: and so I just want to say

[00:46:11] [SPEAKER_03]: that sometimes some people

[00:46:13] [SPEAKER_03]: who can be more

[00:46:16] [SPEAKER_03]: isoteric, spiritual

[00:46:18] [SPEAKER_03]: just perceive it as manipulation

[00:46:20] [SPEAKER_03]: but have this manipulation

[00:46:21] [SPEAKER_03]: but don't just

[00:46:22] [SPEAKER_03]: because you are bloomed

[00:46:24] [SPEAKER_03]: or because of those beautiful words

[00:46:27] [SPEAKER_03]: because they use words

[00:46:29] [SPEAKER_03]: as energy and training

[00:46:31] [SPEAKER_03]: and I have a recent

[00:46:34] [SPEAKER_03]: a friend of mine

[00:46:35] [SPEAKER_03]: the podcaster who comes in front of me

[00:46:37] [SPEAKER_03]: with a very spiritual person

[00:46:39] [SPEAKER_03]: and he says that is 300%

[00:46:41] [SPEAKER_03]: fucking narcissism

[00:46:43] [SPEAKER_03]: in a spiritual thing

[00:46:45] [SPEAKER_03]: and so you have to be aware of that

[00:46:48] [SPEAKER_03]: if you don't work there

[00:46:49] [SPEAKER_03]: just like love relationships

[00:46:53] [SPEAKER_03]: if you don't have yourself

[00:46:55] [SPEAKER_01]: but that is the story

[00:46:58] [SPEAKER_01]: of working as a self-worth

[00:46:59] [SPEAKER_01]: and that is where I sometimes

[00:47:02] [SPEAKER_01]: have to be a little bit tired

[00:47:04] [SPEAKER_01]: because sometimes he asks me

[00:47:06] [SPEAKER_01]: one of the things

[00:47:08] [SPEAKER_01]: that I do in my leadership

[00:47:09] [SPEAKER_01]: is to work as a self-worth

[00:47:11] [SPEAKER_01]: but I can show people the way

[00:47:13] [SPEAKER_01]: but they have to do that

[00:47:15] [SPEAKER_01]: work as a self-worth

[00:47:17] [SPEAKER_01]: and how long before

[00:47:20] [SPEAKER_01]: I get the question

[00:47:22] [SPEAKER_01]: and then

[00:47:24] [SPEAKER_01]: actually the answer is

[00:47:25] [SPEAKER_01]: living snake

[00:47:26] [SPEAKER_01]: because that is a question

[00:47:28] [SPEAKER_01]: of personal development

[00:47:29] [SPEAKER_01]: and if you reason about it

[00:47:31] [SPEAKER_01]: then also I would say

[00:47:32] [SPEAKER_01]: a temporary, vulnerable

[00:47:34] [SPEAKER_01]: example, an injury in the family

[00:47:38] [SPEAKER_01]: an injury that you have

[00:47:40] [SPEAKER_01]: a relationship that has passed

[00:47:42] [SPEAKER_01]: then you have

[00:47:44] [SPEAKER_01]: a temporary vulnerable

[00:47:46] [SPEAKER_01]: but that is still a difference

[00:47:48] [SPEAKER_01]: with just

[00:47:50] [SPEAKER_01]: a general

[00:47:51] [SPEAKER_01]: self-worth

[00:47:53] [SPEAKER_01]: and that self-worth

[00:47:56] [SPEAKER_01]: makes you vulnerable anyway

[00:47:58] [SPEAKER_01]: and if I say

[00:48:00] [SPEAKER_01]: that I did it in my leadership

[00:48:01] [SPEAKER_01]: once again

[00:48:02] [SPEAKER_01]: and finally

[00:48:05] [SPEAKER_01]: now it would not be so easy

[00:48:07] [SPEAKER_01]: it is never said

[00:48:09] [SPEAKER_01]: but it would not be so easy

[00:48:11] [SPEAKER_01]: to overcome

[00:48:13] [SPEAKER_01]: why?

[00:48:14] [SPEAKER_01]: I am already more than 20 years old

[00:48:16] [SPEAKER_01]: where do I work?

[00:48:18] [SPEAKER_01]: I used to be

[00:48:19] [SPEAKER_01]: the vulnerable

[00:48:20] [SPEAKER_01]: because I needed a job

[00:48:23] [SPEAKER_01]: and I would have

[00:48:25] [SPEAKER_01]: done that 10 times

[00:48:27] [SPEAKER_01]: because I never had a boss

[00:48:30] [SPEAKER_01]: who would give me

[00:48:32] [SPEAKER_01]: points of speech

[00:48:33] [SPEAKER_01]: how long I stayed at work

[00:48:35] [SPEAKER_01]: and I would have been away

[00:48:36] [SPEAKER_01]: for 5 hours

[00:48:37] [SPEAKER_01]: that was not ok

[00:48:39] [SPEAKER_01]: I never went home

[00:48:43] [SPEAKER_01]: 8 hours before

[00:48:44] [SPEAKER_01]: so it was

[00:48:46] [SPEAKER_01]: to do it once

[00:48:49] [SPEAKER_01]: if I

[00:48:51] [SPEAKER_01]: get away earlier

[00:48:52] [SPEAKER_01]: I leave a mark

[00:48:53] [SPEAKER_01]: of my base

[00:48:56] [SPEAKER_01]: that is a vulnerability

[00:48:59] [SPEAKER_01]: that

[00:48:59] [SPEAKER_01]: you

[00:49:01] [SPEAKER_01]: was it right

[00:49:02] [SPEAKER_01]: because I know very well

[00:49:04] [SPEAKER_01]: that I left my job

[00:49:05] [SPEAKER_01]: so simple was that

[00:49:08] [SPEAKER_03]: when I did that

[00:49:10] [SPEAKER_03]: I had a conversation

[00:49:11] [SPEAKER_03]: about

[00:49:12] [SPEAKER_03]: now I am talking about a joke

[00:49:19] [SPEAKER_03]: but

[00:49:19] [SPEAKER_03]: that was not my consciousness

[00:49:23] [SPEAKER_03]: I looked for validation

[00:49:25] [SPEAKER_03]: appreciation

[00:49:26] [SPEAKER_03]: that was the joke

[00:49:27] [SPEAKER_03]: that was the joke

[00:49:29] [SPEAKER_03]: I am working hard

[00:49:32] [SPEAKER_03]: to choose

[00:49:33] [SPEAKER_03]: not to look for that

[00:49:34] [SPEAKER_03]: but to look for appreciation

[00:49:35] [SPEAKER_03]: and to look for other signs

[00:49:38] [SPEAKER_03]: then the joke

[00:49:41] [SPEAKER_03]: but it remains a lifelong exercise

[00:49:43] [SPEAKER_03]: or every day

[00:49:45] [SPEAKER_03]: like you clean your teeth

[00:49:46] [SPEAKER_03]: you can say

[00:49:48] [SPEAKER_03]: Friday I will not choose for myself

[00:49:52] [SPEAKER_03]: no, you choose

[00:49:52] [SPEAKER_03]: every day you clean your teeth

[00:49:54] [SPEAKER_03]: and that is

[00:49:57] [SPEAKER_03]: for the rest of your life

[00:49:59] [SPEAKER_03]: but you are getting more and more

[00:50:00] [SPEAKER_03]: you feel better

[00:50:01] [SPEAKER_03]: and you don't attract attention

[00:50:04] [SPEAKER_01]: what I want to emphasize

[00:50:06] [SPEAKER_01]: that is

[00:50:07] [SPEAKER_01]: that plays with me

[00:50:08] [SPEAKER_01]: but that will also be played by other women

[00:50:12] [SPEAKER_01]: I have been involved in a man

[00:50:14] [SPEAKER_01]: world

[00:50:15] [SPEAKER_01]: and I had to press

[00:50:17] [SPEAKER_01]: more

[00:50:18] [SPEAKER_01]: to get more appreciation

[00:50:19] [SPEAKER_01]: to get more appreciation

[00:50:22] [SPEAKER_01]: I hope that will lessen

[00:50:24] [SPEAKER_01]: but

[00:50:26] [SPEAKER_01]: as a woman

[00:50:27] [SPEAKER_01]: in that man world

[00:50:29] [SPEAKER_01]: look at you

[00:50:30] [SPEAKER_03]: I think we are always

[00:50:33] [SPEAKER_03]: in a very big part

[00:50:35] [SPEAKER_03]: it is already gray

[00:50:38] [SPEAKER_03]: but you know

[00:50:40] [SPEAKER_03]: often it is also from role models

[00:50:42] [SPEAKER_03]: and

[00:50:44] [SPEAKER_03]: role models are often

[00:50:45] [SPEAKER_03]: especially in a position

[00:50:47] [SPEAKER_03]: and you have to be in the screening

[00:50:49] [SPEAKER_03]: for Frozen 5 or 6

[00:50:51] [SPEAKER_03]: for Ella

[00:50:52] [SPEAKER_03]: I think ice cream is good for your

[00:50:55] [SPEAKER_03]: future

[00:50:55] [SPEAKER_03]: and while you see it in another context

[00:50:59] [SPEAKER_03]: it is more

[00:51:01] [SPEAKER_03]: and then you think

[00:51:02] [SPEAKER_03]: they are warm people

[00:51:04] [SPEAKER_03]: but they think they have to play

[00:51:06] [SPEAKER_03]: because they have seen that before

[00:51:08] [SPEAKER_03]: so there is a lot

[00:51:10] [SPEAKER_03]: a lot of work

[00:51:12] [SPEAKER_03]: on the other hand

[00:51:13] [SPEAKER_03]: there is still the opening of the leadership

[00:51:16] [SPEAKER_03]: coach and toxic leadership

[00:51:18] [SPEAKER_03]: and all the examples

[00:51:19] [SPEAKER_03]: but I think it is also very sector-dependent

[00:51:23] [SPEAKER_03]: certainly a firm

[00:51:24] [SPEAKER_01]: certainly a firm

[00:51:25] [SPEAKER_01]: where I have worked

[00:51:28] [SPEAKER_01]: insurance is

[00:51:29] [SPEAKER_01]: a man bastion

[00:51:31] [SPEAKER_01]: still for a big part

[00:51:34] [SPEAKER_01]: and I have to say that

[00:51:35] [SPEAKER_01]: as director in that society

[00:51:38] [SPEAKER_01]: was the only woman

[00:51:41] [SPEAKER_01]: and all possible

[00:51:43] [SPEAKER_01]: management courses, leadership courses

[00:51:45] [SPEAKER_01]: followed to do that well

[00:51:47] [SPEAKER_01]: but

[00:51:49] [SPEAKER_01]: when you came to Paeltje

[00:51:51] [SPEAKER_01]: it was a mess

[00:51:52] [SPEAKER_01]: I will not let you read by a woman

[00:51:56] [SPEAKER_03]: yes, I think so

[00:51:58] [SPEAKER_03]: if you look at it

[00:51:59] [SPEAKER_03]: since there was an insurance potato in his head

[00:52:01] [SPEAKER_03]: that is so

[00:52:02] [SPEAKER_03]: but that still happens

[00:52:03] [SPEAKER_03]: I think that still happens

[00:52:05] [SPEAKER_03]: that went

[00:52:07] [SPEAKER_01]: to salesmen

[00:52:09] [SPEAKER_01]: that are individualists

[00:52:11] [SPEAKER_03]: salesmen are the most

[00:52:13] [SPEAKER_03]: loyal

[00:52:15] [SPEAKER_03]: but that is special

[00:52:17] [SPEAKER_03]: and that is

[00:52:19] [SPEAKER_03]: I must say they are the best

[00:52:21] [SPEAKER_03]: I had heard about women

[00:52:22] [SPEAKER_03]: and I still remain a woman

[00:52:26] [SPEAKER_03]: better leadership

[00:52:27] [SPEAKER_03]: but I do not want to mention

[00:52:28] [SPEAKER_03]: but

[00:52:30] [SPEAKER_03]: the mix between

[00:52:31] [SPEAKER_03]: how you combine

[00:52:34] [SPEAKER_03]: feeling in head-to-heart

[00:52:35] [SPEAKER_03]: that is

[00:52:36] [SPEAKER_03]: and they are called

[00:52:39] [SPEAKER_03]: and men are many all-colours with a plastron

[00:52:42] [SPEAKER_01]: that you said

[00:52:46] [SPEAKER_03]: of course, must not be a professional

[00:52:48] [SPEAKER_03]: so

[00:52:48] [SPEAKER_03]: I mean

[00:52:50] [SPEAKER_03]: but it is

[00:52:52] [SPEAKER_03]: it feels

[00:52:53] [SPEAKER_03]: that there is more

[00:52:57] [SPEAKER_03]: that feels

[00:52:58] [SPEAKER_03]: that is not easy

[00:53:00] [SPEAKER_03]: but it is important

[00:53:01] [SPEAKER_03]: you do not want to go the other way

[00:53:05] [SPEAKER_03]: in some situations

[00:53:06] [SPEAKER_03]: I sometimes see the wrong side

[00:53:08] [SPEAKER_03]: the right side

[00:53:09] [SPEAKER_03]: then the balance

[00:53:13] [SPEAKER_03]: is to go the other way

[00:53:14] [SPEAKER_03]: we are discussing

[00:53:15] [SPEAKER_01]: a different podcast

[00:53:17] [SPEAKER_03]: I will not

[00:53:21] [SPEAKER_03]: we were left

[00:53:23] [SPEAKER_03]: with

[00:53:24] [SPEAKER_03]: I say

[00:53:24] [SPEAKER_03]: change

[00:53:25] [SPEAKER_03]: and at the same time you are yourself

[00:53:27] [SPEAKER_03]: and that is very important

[00:53:29] [SPEAKER_03]: and that means

[00:53:31] [SPEAKER_03]: a therapist, looking for another therapist

[00:53:34] [SPEAKER_03]: looking for myself in the kitchen

[00:53:35] [SPEAKER_03]: things you like to do

[00:53:36] [SPEAKER_03]: also life in such a way

[00:53:38] [SPEAKER_03]: and I think that is also very important

[00:53:40] [SPEAKER_03]: to be aware

[00:53:45] [SPEAKER_03]: of what is in me

[00:53:47] [SPEAKER_03]: that wants to come to expression

[00:53:50] [SPEAKER_03]: and that is often more

[00:53:51] [SPEAKER_03]: that you have a title

[00:53:54] [SPEAKER_01]: or your job

[00:53:55] [SPEAKER_03]: and therefore at the end of the day

[00:53:57] [SPEAKER_03]: so that you do not

[00:53:59] [SPEAKER_03]: a few, it sounds a bit strange

[00:54:01] [SPEAKER_03]: but it is the detachment

[00:54:02] [SPEAKER_03]: that means that a partner should make me happy

[00:54:05] [SPEAKER_03]: or that job should make me happy

[00:54:07] [SPEAKER_03]: but you yourself

[00:54:08] [SPEAKER_03]: do it happy with who you are

[00:54:11] [SPEAKER_03]: and then you do

[00:54:12] [SPEAKER_03]: a partner cannot be happy

[00:54:14] [SPEAKER_01]: absolutely not

[00:54:16] [SPEAKER_01]: and a job less

[00:54:18] [SPEAKER_01]: you can be happier

[00:54:19] [SPEAKER_01]: if you think it is a job

[00:54:21] [SPEAKER_01]: that fits with you

[00:54:22] [SPEAKER_01]: and that is the beginning

[00:54:25] [SPEAKER_01]: of working on yourself

[00:54:27] [SPEAKER_01]: who am I

[00:54:28] [SPEAKER_01]: I do not know

[00:54:30] [SPEAKER_01]: when I said that

[00:54:32] [SPEAKER_01]: but that is the beginning

[00:54:34] [SPEAKER_01]: of working on yourself

[00:54:36] [SPEAKER_01]: who am I

[00:54:37] [SPEAKER_03]: and that is so many people very difficult

[00:54:40] [SPEAKER_03]: because they have no answer

[00:54:42] [SPEAKER_03]: but if you say who are you

[00:54:44] [SPEAKER_03]: and then you hear

[00:54:44] [SPEAKER_03]: I am 38 years old

[00:54:46] [SPEAKER_03]: and you call me titles and my dad

[00:54:47] [SPEAKER_03]: I think I do not have to be like that

[00:54:49] [SPEAKER_03]: but you are without all those things

[00:54:51] [SPEAKER_03]: and for me it is really about

[00:54:53] [SPEAKER_03]: the expression of what is in you

[00:54:55] [SPEAKER_03]: and creating

[00:54:57] [SPEAKER_03]: that is

[00:54:58] [SPEAKER_03]: and opposite of expression is depression

[00:55:00] [SPEAKER_03]: and you can see that with children

[00:55:04] [SPEAKER_03]: they create

[00:55:05] [SPEAKER_03]: what we are

[00:55:07] [SPEAKER_03]: there is a very hard

[00:55:09] [SPEAKER_03]: that is the male 80s

[00:55:11] [SPEAKER_03]: presentation results

[00:55:14] and

[00:55:15] [SPEAKER_03]: for a part is good

[00:55:17] [SPEAKER_03]: but you do not have to exaggerate

[00:55:19] [SPEAKER_03]: and

[00:55:21] [SPEAKER_03]: you also look back

[00:55:23] [SPEAKER_03]: again a little bit

[00:55:24] [SPEAKER_03]: who am I and then you see that

[00:55:26] [SPEAKER_03]: yes, calm down on purpose

[00:55:27] [SPEAKER_03]: but how does it come

[00:55:29] [SPEAKER_03]: by yourself

[00:55:32] [SPEAKER_03]: by thinking

[00:55:32] [SPEAKER_03]: whether or not

[00:55:35] [SPEAKER_03]: she has a positive energy

[00:55:37] [SPEAKER_03]: and it is positive

[00:55:38] [SPEAKER_03]: and these are the seeds

[00:55:40] [SPEAKER_03]: that car that you are in

[00:55:42] [SPEAKER_03]: and trying to walk that way

[00:55:45] [SPEAKER_03]: also at first

[00:55:46] [SPEAKER_03]: for your head, totally not logical

[00:55:48] [SPEAKER_03]: do you have a lot of comments on that

[00:55:50] [SPEAKER_03]: but I think you are different

[00:55:54] [SPEAKER_01]: how I start

[00:55:55] [SPEAKER_01]: to learn

[00:55:57] [SPEAKER_01]: to work on yourself

[00:55:58] [SPEAKER_01]: on the part of your own

[00:56:00] [SPEAKER_01]: that is to search

[00:56:02] [SPEAKER_01]: and define

[00:56:03] [SPEAKER_01]: or redefine

[00:56:04] [SPEAKER_01]: your very personal

[00:56:06] [SPEAKER_01]: unique norms and values

[00:56:08] [SPEAKER_01]: that starts with

[00:56:10] [SPEAKER_01]: because we have

[00:56:12] [SPEAKER_01]: social norms and values

[00:56:16] [SPEAKER_01]: opposite of the elections

[00:56:17] [SPEAKER_01]: in view of the Russian

[00:56:19] [SPEAKER_01]: already speaking about our western

[00:56:21] [SPEAKER_01]: values, they are all beautiful

[00:56:23] [SPEAKER_01]: but each of the

[00:56:25] [SPEAKER_01]: between 8 billion people

[00:56:27] [SPEAKER_01]: around the world has

[00:56:29] [SPEAKER_01]: unique norms and values

[00:56:30] [SPEAKER_01]: and that definition

[00:56:32] [SPEAKER_01]: is incredibly important

[00:56:35] [SPEAKER_01]: to discover who you are

[00:56:37] [SPEAKER_01]: because now

[00:56:38] [SPEAKER_01]: I have not seen all

[00:56:40] [SPEAKER_01]: but there is such a program

[00:56:42] [SPEAKER_01]: for the younger to learn

[00:56:44] [SPEAKER_01]: to choose from

[00:56:45] [SPEAKER_01]: I have not seen

[00:56:49] [SPEAKER_01]: but I

[00:56:53] [SPEAKER_01]: it was another podcast

[00:56:56] [SPEAKER_01]: that program

[00:56:58] [SPEAKER_01]: that leaves

[00:57:00] [SPEAKER_01]: people, young people

[00:57:03] [SPEAKER_01]: to question

[00:57:03] [SPEAKER_01]: about politics

[00:57:04] [SPEAKER_01]: and then they have to

[00:57:07] [SPEAKER_01]: look what do you think

[00:57:09] [SPEAKER_01]: of that and what do you think

[00:57:11] [SPEAKER_01]: of that

[00:57:12] [SPEAKER_01]: I think it is a great exercise

[00:57:14] [SPEAKER_01]: that you can do in this time

[00:57:16] [SPEAKER_01]: because such a politician

[00:57:18] [SPEAKER_01]: can

[00:57:19] [SPEAKER_01]: define the definition

[00:57:22] [SPEAKER_01]: otherwise you will not get it

[00:57:24] [SPEAKER_01]: so it is

[00:57:25] [SPEAKER_01]: for his or her

[00:57:28] [SPEAKER_01]: point of view

[00:57:30] [SPEAKER_01]: and

[00:57:31] [SPEAKER_01]: the real

[00:57:32] [SPEAKER_01]: who believe 100%

[00:57:36] [SPEAKER_01]: in what they say

[00:57:37] [SPEAKER_01]: that you recognize there too

[00:57:38] [SPEAKER_01]: then you have to listen to that story

[00:57:42] [SPEAKER_01]: many people

[00:57:43] [SPEAKER_01]: who I would never vote for

[00:57:45] [SPEAKER_01]: can make

[00:57:48] [SPEAKER_01]: a story

[00:57:49] [SPEAKER_01]: where

[00:57:51] [SPEAKER_01]: you do not play

[00:57:52] [SPEAKER_01]: that is all right

[00:57:54] [SPEAKER_01]: and if you listen to that

[00:57:57] [SPEAKER_01]: then you would have to say

[00:57:59] [SPEAKER_01]: that is all right

[00:58:02] [SPEAKER_01]: but for that I will vote

[00:58:04] [SPEAKER_01]: but then comes

[00:58:05] [SPEAKER_01]: the next one

[00:58:06] [SPEAKER_01]: and he also does such a story

[00:58:08] [SPEAKER_01]: and he is also completely

[00:58:10] [SPEAKER_01]: by drawing from

[00:58:12] [SPEAKER_01]: what he tells

[00:58:13] [SPEAKER_01]: but that is also right

[00:58:15] [SPEAKER_01]: but that is also possible

[00:58:15] [SPEAKER_01]: while

[00:58:17] [SPEAKER_01]: your own norms and values

[00:58:20] [SPEAKER_01]: or your own values

[00:58:21] [SPEAKER_01]: that is a very difficult exercise

[00:58:25] [SPEAKER_01]: for what everything he tells

[00:58:27] [SPEAKER_01]: what do I think

[00:58:28] [SPEAKER_01]: it is not always easy

[00:58:30] [SPEAKER_01]: to do that

[00:58:31] [SPEAKER_01]: but if you do that

[00:58:33] [SPEAKER_01]: and that is something you do not

[00:58:35] [SPEAKER_01]: have to choose

[00:58:35] [SPEAKER_01]: but that you have to do

[00:58:39] [SPEAKER_01]: permanently 24 hours

[00:58:41] [SPEAKER_01]: that is what I think

[00:58:43] [SPEAKER_01]: of who I am

[00:58:44] [SPEAKER_01]: in that way

[00:58:46] [SPEAKER_01]: you will make yourself

[00:58:48] [SPEAKER_01]: that is important

[00:58:50] [SPEAKER_01]: and that is not important

[00:58:52] [SPEAKER_03]: that you also say

[00:58:53] [SPEAKER_03]: or interpret

[00:58:56] [SPEAKER_03]: that

[00:58:57] [SPEAKER_03]: is also to give borders

[00:59:01] [SPEAKER_03]: that as a logical result

[00:59:02] [SPEAKER_03]: if you know

[00:59:04] [SPEAKER_03]: what it is

[00:59:05] [SPEAKER_03]: this is the border

[00:59:08] [SPEAKER_03]: in this border is overshadowed

[00:59:10] [SPEAKER_03]: or not and you also give

[00:59:11] [SPEAKER_03]: and in a certain form of assertiveness

[00:59:14] [SPEAKER_03]: assertiveness

[00:59:15] [SPEAKER_03]: is something else than arrogance

[00:59:18] [SPEAKER_03]: or aggressiveness

[00:59:19] [SPEAKER_03]: but that is a result of yourself

[00:59:21] [SPEAKER_03]: in combination with

[00:59:25] [SPEAKER_03]: if you then come into contact

[00:59:27] [SPEAKER_03]: really feel that

[00:59:28] [SPEAKER_03]: it is now about the hope to fill a time

[00:59:31] [SPEAKER_03]: or is that something that I really

[00:59:33] [SPEAKER_03]: is that here

[00:59:34] [SPEAKER_03]: a bridge tablet

[00:59:36] [SPEAKER_03]: or that person's energy

[00:59:39] [SPEAKER_03]: a health tablet

[00:59:40] [SPEAKER_03]: and because that will also

[00:59:42] [SPEAKER_03]: go with it

[00:59:43] [SPEAKER_03]: because you are now once

[00:59:46] [SPEAKER_03]: you hear that sometimes

[00:59:47] [SPEAKER_03]: there is a man or woman

[00:59:49] [SPEAKER_03]: who has a lot of weight

[00:59:50] [SPEAKER_03]: and she also has friends

[00:59:54] [SPEAKER_03]: and she says

[00:59:55] [SPEAKER_03]: that I would like to look for a deft love

[00:59:57] [SPEAKER_03]: or partner or fan

[01:00:00] [SPEAKER_03]: and he eats on his food

[01:00:01] [SPEAKER_03]: and in the beginning

[01:00:04] [SPEAKER_03]: a couple of months

[01:00:05] [SPEAKER_03]: you are so disheartened

[01:00:07] [SPEAKER_03]: because you do not fit in the norms

[01:00:09] [SPEAKER_03]: and values of that group

[01:00:10] [SPEAKER_03]: and the first podcast live

[01:00:13] [SPEAKER_03]: went with Eva Vleemings

[01:00:14] [SPEAKER_03]: and we talked about the difference between fitting

[01:00:17] [SPEAKER_03]: in and belonging to

[01:00:19] [SPEAKER_03]: and very well know yourself

[01:00:21] [SPEAKER_03]: that you are doing this

[01:00:22] [SPEAKER_03]: to belong to a certain tribe

[01:00:24] [SPEAKER_03]: because otherwise you feel alone

[01:00:26] [SPEAKER_03]: or I can let it go

[01:00:27] [SPEAKER_03]: and I do not fit in

[01:00:28] [SPEAKER_03]: and maybe I should take a break

[01:00:31] [SPEAKER_03]: and take a new track

[01:00:32] [SPEAKER_01]: that has made you

[01:00:34] [SPEAKER_01]: a self-esteem

[01:00:35] [SPEAKER_01]: and that is what you are saying very well

[01:00:39] [SPEAKER_01]: if you are not really aware

[01:00:42] [SPEAKER_01]: of this

[01:00:43] [SPEAKER_01]: fits me

[01:00:44] [SPEAKER_01]: this fits me

[01:00:45] [SPEAKER_01]: then you cannot set the limits

[01:00:48] [SPEAKER_01]: because setting limits

[01:00:50] [SPEAKER_01]: people ask me

[01:00:52] [SPEAKER_01]: that I can learn to set limits

[01:00:53] [SPEAKER_01]: while setting warm-up

[01:00:56] [SPEAKER_01]: and then you need those values

[01:00:59] [SPEAKER_01]: because if things happen

[01:01:02] [SPEAKER_01]: if you do not know

[01:01:03] [SPEAKER_01]: what fits you

[01:01:04] [SPEAKER_01]: that is the story of

[01:01:07] [SPEAKER_01]: fitting in or belonging to

[01:01:10] [SPEAKER_01]: if you want

[01:01:12] [SPEAKER_01]: to fit in

[01:01:13] [SPEAKER_01]: so to say

[01:01:14] [SPEAKER_01]: to add

[01:01:15] [SPEAKER_01]: with something you are not really in

[01:01:18] [SPEAKER_01]: that will never work

[01:01:20] [SPEAKER_01]: that will never work

[01:01:21] [SPEAKER_01]: but that is trial and error

[01:01:23] [SPEAKER_01]: but to set limits

[01:01:26] [SPEAKER_01]: you need to define those things

[01:01:29] [SPEAKER_01]: and that is

[01:01:30] [SPEAKER_01]: not always

[01:01:32] [SPEAKER_01]: easy

[01:01:33] [SPEAKER_01]: that is not always easy

[01:01:35] [SPEAKER_01]: before you really realize

[01:01:37] [SPEAKER_01]: this is my package

[01:01:40] [SPEAKER_01]: and

[01:01:42] [SPEAKER_01]: this is where I stand

[01:01:44] [SPEAKER_01]: it is still

[01:01:46] [SPEAKER_01]: a next step

[01:01:47] [SPEAKER_01]: to get out of there

[01:01:49] [SPEAKER_01]: and to carry out

[01:01:50] [SPEAKER_01]: that is what I call authenticity

[01:01:53] [SPEAKER_01]: you see what you get

[01:01:55] [SPEAKER_03]: that is your authentic intelligence

[01:01:57] [SPEAKER_01]: and you have to make that

[01:02:00] [SPEAKER_01]: because

[01:02:02] [SPEAKER_01]: today I am in a role

[01:02:04] [SPEAKER_01]: and I am carrying on

[01:02:06] [SPEAKER_01]: in a different way

[01:02:07] [SPEAKER_01]: than with my youngest child

[01:02:09] [SPEAKER_01]: but it is always easy

[01:02:11] [SPEAKER_01]: and I am the same

[01:02:12] [SPEAKER_01]: that does not mean

[01:02:14] [SPEAKER_01]: that I am in another situation

[01:02:17] [SPEAKER_01]: that I am someone else

[01:02:19] [SPEAKER_01]: but

[01:02:19] [SPEAKER_01]: that is not evident

[01:02:23] [SPEAKER_01]: that words

[01:02:24] [SPEAKER_01]: who you really are

[01:02:26] [SPEAKER_01]: I am already there

[01:02:28] [SPEAKER_01]: working for 20 years

[01:02:30] [SPEAKER_03]: for me it is also struggle

[01:02:32] [SPEAKER_03]: and

[01:02:34] [SPEAKER_03]: I have to say

[01:02:37] [SPEAKER_03]: I think

[01:02:40] [SPEAKER_03]: that there is never such a point

[01:02:42] [SPEAKER_03]: to be 100%

[01:02:43] [SPEAKER_03]: because of the podcast

[01:02:44] [SPEAKER_03]: I get a lot of questions

[01:02:45] [SPEAKER_03]: and a lot of requests

[01:02:47] [SPEAKER_03]: and I have set limits

[01:02:49] [SPEAKER_03]: because where does it stop

[01:02:50] [SPEAKER_03]: and because

[01:02:53] [SPEAKER_03]: I need to be alone

[01:02:55] [SPEAKER_03]: and to be there

[01:02:56] [SPEAKER_03]: and yes, I can not be for everyone

[01:02:58] [SPEAKER_03]: because it is that

[01:03:00] [SPEAKER_03]: that pleases and that does not want to disappoint

[01:03:02] [SPEAKER_03]: that confronted me

[01:03:03] [SPEAKER_03]: and then I was going to say something

[01:03:05] [SPEAKER_03]: because a lot of people sent me something

[01:03:07] [SPEAKER_03]: and they were angry because they did not react

[01:03:09] [SPEAKER_03]: it is not my job

[01:03:10] [SPEAKER_03]: it is your feeling

[01:03:11] [SPEAKER_03]: and then I thought

[01:03:13] [SPEAKER_03]: as a neck heart

[01:03:14] [SPEAKER_03]: and they will get a little more mail

[01:03:16] [SPEAKER_03]: than me

[01:03:19] [SPEAKER_03]: but that is

[01:03:20] [SPEAKER_03]: and that sounds a bit hard

[01:03:23] [SPEAKER_03]: but

[01:03:25] [SPEAKER_03]: you have to keep your neck

[01:03:26] [SPEAKER_03]: that

[01:03:30] [SPEAKER_03]: and that is called a turf

[01:03:33] [SPEAKER_03]: and

[01:03:33] [SPEAKER_03]: and by accepting

[01:03:35] [SPEAKER_03]: that you are not popular with everyone

[01:03:37] [SPEAKER_03]: otherwise you have to sell your cream

[01:03:38] [SPEAKER_01]: not everyone takes that in thanks

[01:03:41] [SPEAKER_01]: that you are

[01:03:42] [SPEAKER_01]: who you are and that you come out for

[01:03:45] [SPEAKER_01]: who you are

[01:03:46] [SPEAKER_01]: and I have to

[01:03:49] [SPEAKER_01]: find out

[01:03:49] [SPEAKER_01]: that my turfiness

[01:03:52] [SPEAKER_01]: I keep on the idea

[01:03:54] [SPEAKER_01]: that turfiness is power

[01:03:56] [SPEAKER_01]: but you put up your turfiness

[01:03:59] [SPEAKER_01]: and you have to be powerful

[01:04:01] [SPEAKER_01]: to hit

[01:04:05] [SPEAKER_01]: that you are able to get in

[01:04:06] [SPEAKER_01]: to be able to do it

[01:04:08] [SPEAKER_01]: and that is one of the things

[01:04:10] [SPEAKER_01]: sorry that I am not speaking

[01:04:11] [SPEAKER_01]: but that is one of the things

[01:04:13] [SPEAKER_01]: where I know

[01:04:15] [SPEAKER_01]: I have been back for a few years

[01:04:18] [SPEAKER_01]: so I could not have

[01:04:20] [SPEAKER_01]: I would

[01:04:21] [SPEAKER_01]: if I felt that this would be unsafe

[01:04:25] [SPEAKER_01]: I can speak of it

[01:04:27] [SPEAKER_01]: because I do not want to be again

[01:04:28] [SPEAKER_01]: so

[01:04:32] [SPEAKER_01]: growing in who you really are

[01:04:35] [SPEAKER_01]: and working on your own

[01:04:38] [SPEAKER_01]: makes me

[01:04:39] [SPEAKER_01]: better able to do that

[01:04:41] [SPEAKER_03]: Yes but it is also because

[01:04:43] [SPEAKER_03]: through the norms and the values

[01:04:45] [SPEAKER_03]: and that you know better who you are

[01:04:47] [SPEAKER_03]: is that a kind of eye in the storm

[01:04:49] [SPEAKER_03]: and you can always go back

[01:04:51] [SPEAKER_03]: to that axis

[01:04:52] [SPEAKER_03]: while you are there

[01:04:54] [SPEAKER_03]: is that a kind of opinion

[01:04:56] [SPEAKER_03]: of another

[01:04:57] [SPEAKER_03]: or other who find

[01:04:59] [SPEAKER_03]: and you all go with it

[01:05:00] [SPEAKER_03]: and that is of course confirmed

[01:05:03] [SPEAKER_03]: because there are people

[01:05:03] [SPEAKER_03]: on a certain appreciation

[01:05:04] [SPEAKER_03]: etc etc

[01:05:06] [SPEAKER_03]: but you do not ask

[01:05:07] [SPEAKER_03]: what I actually want

[01:05:09] [SPEAKER_03]: your sadness with that good feeling

[01:05:11] [SPEAKER_03]: but as a put that you just

[01:05:13] [SPEAKER_03]: can not fill

[01:05:14] [SPEAKER_03]: because you constantly need it

[01:05:17] [SPEAKER_03]: but of course

[01:05:24] [SPEAKER_03]: I have to go back to the style

[01:05:26] [SPEAKER_03]: then I have to go away from the pricks

[01:05:28] [SPEAKER_03]: for real distance

[01:05:29] [SPEAKER_03]: and really come

[01:05:31] [SPEAKER_03]: what is it now actually

[01:05:34] [SPEAKER_03]: and then even through meditation

[01:05:35] [SPEAKER_03]: what do you want to learn from me

[01:05:37] [SPEAKER_03]: and then I start to feel again

[01:05:38] [SPEAKER_03]: because I have a desire to go to my head

[01:05:41] [SPEAKER_03]: and that I know if I am in my head

[01:05:43] [SPEAKER_03]: is for you

[01:05:44] [SPEAKER_03]: and then the demons come up

[01:05:46] [SPEAKER_03]: and then I know from the loop

[01:05:48] [SPEAKER_03]: to start and then

[01:05:49] [SPEAKER_03]: then the thing begins again

[01:05:50] [SPEAKER_01]: but what you said

[01:05:52] [SPEAKER_01]: it is right

[01:05:54] [SPEAKER_01]: with the person

[01:05:57] [SPEAKER_01]: who is highly sensitive

[01:05:58] [SPEAKER_01]: and who is ultimately

[01:06:00] [SPEAKER_01]: much easier to be pro-willed

[01:06:01] [SPEAKER_01]: I know for example

[01:06:04] [SPEAKER_01]: the fact of being vulnerable

[01:06:07] [SPEAKER_01]: I say I am now

[01:06:09] [SPEAKER_01]: more than 20 years busy

[01:06:11] [SPEAKER_01]: with one discovery

[01:06:12] [SPEAKER_01]: that I had to make my narcissism

[01:06:13] [SPEAKER_01]: all those years before

[01:06:15] [SPEAKER_01]: and then what is this

[01:06:17] [SPEAKER_01]: and why does it come to me

[01:06:19] [SPEAKER_01]: and

[01:06:21] [SPEAKER_01]: it has been a whole

[01:06:23] [SPEAKER_01]: process to discover

[01:06:26] [SPEAKER_01]: the moment I thought

[01:06:27] [SPEAKER_01]: I am out of it

[01:06:29] [SPEAKER_01]: that I then discovered

[01:06:30] [SPEAKER_01]: but every step I take

[01:06:33] [SPEAKER_01]: in myself

[01:06:35] [SPEAKER_01]: I have to start giving

[01:06:37] [SPEAKER_01]: a response to people

[01:06:39] [SPEAKER_01]: who still treat me

[01:06:41] [SPEAKER_01]: as if I was asked

[01:06:43] [SPEAKER_01]: to be more than 20 years older

[01:06:44] [SPEAKER_01]: and

[01:06:45] [SPEAKER_01]: you can think of

[01:06:47] [SPEAKER_01]: OK this is liberating for me

[01:06:49] [SPEAKER_01]: that I made out of it

[01:06:51] [SPEAKER_01]: but I have been

[01:06:55] [SPEAKER_01]: never been

[01:06:57] [SPEAKER_01]: that I

[01:06:59] [SPEAKER_01]: would say must be

[01:07:01] [SPEAKER_01]: or that fits who I really am

[01:07:03] [SPEAKER_01]: and the search

[01:07:04] [SPEAKER_01]: for who I really am

[01:07:07] [SPEAKER_01]: goes for a very big

[01:07:10] [SPEAKER_01]: piece along

[01:07:10] [SPEAKER_01]: with the story of Norman and Waer

[01:07:12] [SPEAKER_01]: but then there is

[01:07:14] [SPEAKER_01]: the question of

[01:07:15] [SPEAKER_01]: how vulnerable

[01:07:17] [SPEAKER_01]: I am

[01:07:19] [SPEAKER_01]: to

[01:07:23] [SPEAKER_01]: grow in that sense

[01:07:24] [SPEAKER_01]: that you are no longer

[01:07:26] [SPEAKER_01]: being beaten up as you used to be

[01:07:29] [SPEAKER_03]: but that is also a spirit

[01:07:30] [SPEAKER_03]: that you train

[01:07:32] [SPEAKER_03]: but

[01:07:32] [SPEAKER_03]: that is the comfort zone

[01:07:35] [SPEAKER_03]: the growth zone and the stretching zone

[01:07:37] [SPEAKER_03]: and it is the growth zone

[01:07:38] [SPEAKER_03]: that hurts me a bit

[01:07:39] [SPEAKER_03]: that is my sport, but it is too far

[01:07:41] [SPEAKER_03]: then too much

[01:07:44] [SPEAKER_01]: Peter, I fall back

[01:07:46] [SPEAKER_01]: on what I have always been aware of

[01:07:49] [SPEAKER_01]: from the beginning

[01:07:49] [SPEAKER_01]: it are the strong people

[01:07:52] [SPEAKER_01]: who are attracted

[01:07:52] [SPEAKER_01]: but no one

[01:07:55] [SPEAKER_01]: who is in that situation

[01:07:56] [SPEAKER_01]: is called strong

[01:07:58] [SPEAKER_01]: they find themselves very weak

[01:08:00] [SPEAKER_01]: and that is also the accessible number

[01:08:02] [SPEAKER_01]: of

[01:08:02] [SPEAKER_01]: if you let

[01:08:06] [SPEAKER_01]: a assistant

[01:08:07] [SPEAKER_01]: make absolutely nothing

[01:08:09] [SPEAKER_01]: they are the strong people

[01:08:12] [SPEAKER_01]: who

[01:08:12] [SPEAKER_01]: find themselves and

[01:08:15] [SPEAKER_01]: are strong enough to outrun

[01:08:18] [SPEAKER_03]: and that is

[01:08:20] [SPEAKER_03]: and now we will round off

[01:08:21] [SPEAKER_03]: to respect your time

[01:08:22] [SPEAKER_03]: and that was the conclusion

[01:08:25] [SPEAKER_03]: of our first conversation

[01:08:26] [SPEAKER_03]: the decision is mostly

[01:08:28] [SPEAKER_03]: or the decision is mostly

[01:08:29] [SPEAKER_03]: that I have made

[01:08:30] [SPEAKER_03]: of people who are

[01:08:32] [SPEAKER_03]: I always thought it was my fault

[01:08:35] [SPEAKER_03]: and that the look

[01:08:36] [SPEAKER_03]: because the conversation

[01:08:38] [SPEAKER_03]: I realized that I was with a narcissist

[01:08:40] [SPEAKER_03]: or a narcissist

[01:08:42] [SPEAKER_03]: so

[01:08:45] [SPEAKER_03]: it will always be my fault

[01:08:47] [SPEAKER_03]: why? because the narcissist

[01:08:49] [SPEAKER_03]: made a sport to give the other

[01:08:51] [SPEAKER_03]: the fault

[01:08:51] [SPEAKER_03]: how did he or she do it herself

[01:08:54] [SPEAKER_01]: and then you

[01:08:56] [SPEAKER_01]: in the meantime you cook the chicken

[01:08:57] [SPEAKER_01]: say where we are speaking

[01:09:00] [SPEAKER_01]: but there is something

[01:09:02] [SPEAKER_01]: I still want to say about

[01:09:03] [SPEAKER_01]: character of those people

[01:09:06] [SPEAKER_01]: I believe a lot in energy

[01:09:08] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know enough about it

[01:09:10] [SPEAKER_01]: and I read everything

[01:09:12] [SPEAKER_01]: that I can find

[01:09:13] [SPEAKER_01]: but the sesame is

[01:09:15] [SPEAKER_01]: negative energy

[01:09:18] [SPEAKER_01]: love is positive energy

[01:09:20] [SPEAKER_01]: and there is a lot of gradation between

[01:09:22] [SPEAKER_01]: and to get out

[01:09:24] [SPEAKER_01]: to get out the negative

[01:09:26] [SPEAKER_01]: that's anxiety

[01:09:27] [SPEAKER_03]: that's anxiety

[01:09:29] [SPEAKER_03]: that's negative

[01:09:30] [SPEAKER_01]: but everything that is

[01:09:34] [SPEAKER_01]: negative is energy

[01:09:35] [SPEAKER_01]: everything negative

[01:09:36] [SPEAKER_01]: is under the zero scale

[01:09:39] [SPEAKER_01]: we will speak about

[01:09:41] [SPEAKER_01]: and underneath it is

[01:09:42] [SPEAKER_01]: fear, shame, guilt

[01:09:44] [SPEAKER_01]: everything that is negative

[01:09:46] [SPEAKER_01]: and above it is friendship

[01:09:49] [SPEAKER_01]: love, joy

[01:09:51] [SPEAKER_01]: everything

[01:09:52] [SPEAKER_01]: and that positive energy

[01:09:54] [SPEAKER_01]: is what we have to achieve

[01:09:56] [SPEAKER_01]: to get out the negativity

[01:09:58] [SPEAKER_01]: that has been socially

[01:09:59] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know

[01:10:03] [SPEAKER_03]: David Hawkins

[01:10:05] [SPEAKER_03]: sorry I could break it

[01:10:06] [SPEAKER_03]: he wrote a book

[01:10:08] [SPEAKER_03]: Paul versus force

[01:10:10] [SPEAKER_03]: and in that letter I wrote

[01:10:11] [SPEAKER_03]: a script

[01:10:12] [SPEAKER_03]: and love is all the roses

[01:10:17] [SPEAKER_03]: and then there is joy and passion

[01:10:19] [SPEAKER_03]: and is it like a person

[01:10:20] [SPEAKER_03]: who works there

[01:10:22] [SPEAKER_03]: who is aware of it

[01:10:23] [SPEAKER_03]: because it has increased

[01:10:25] [SPEAKER_03]: that sounds better than the other

[01:10:28] [SPEAKER_03]: but the effect

[01:10:29] [SPEAKER_03]: on other people

[01:10:32] [SPEAKER_03]: that is phenomenal

[01:10:36] [SPEAKER_01]: that's where it all

[01:10:37] [SPEAKER_01]: comes about

[01:10:38] [SPEAKER_01]: that's also the start of my book

[01:10:41] [SPEAKER_01]: what I like the most

[01:10:42] [SPEAKER_01]: in the energy theory

[01:10:44] [SPEAKER_01]: is that people who come to me

[01:10:48] [SPEAKER_01]: they have nothing

[01:10:49] [SPEAKER_01]: that

[01:10:50] [SPEAKER_01]: the real weak people

[01:10:53] [SPEAKER_01]: don't have

[01:10:54] [SPEAKER_01]: and the fact

[01:10:56] [SPEAKER_01]: that you had to do it

[01:10:58] [SPEAKER_01]: you can feel guilty

[01:11:00] [SPEAKER_01]: and think and I

[01:11:01] [SPEAKER_01]: and very often it comes that

[01:11:03] [SPEAKER_01]: I did things that are not okay

[01:11:05] [SPEAKER_01]: yes, you do things that are not okay

[01:11:08] [SPEAKER_01]: and in such a situation

[01:11:10] [SPEAKER_01]: but the zero point

[01:11:12] [SPEAKER_01]: where people come to me

[01:11:14] [SPEAKER_01]: the zero point is

[01:11:16] [SPEAKER_01]: actually anger

[01:11:17] [SPEAKER_01]: and everything that is under it is negativity

[01:11:19] [SPEAKER_01]: anger is

[01:11:20] [SPEAKER_01]: but anger is a quality

[01:11:24] [SPEAKER_01]: because it is courage

[01:11:26] [SPEAKER_01]: yes

[01:11:26] [SPEAKER_01]: that means

[01:11:27] [SPEAKER_01]: people who are weak

[01:11:30] [SPEAKER_01]: because they have a system

[01:11:32] [SPEAKER_01]: who have had the anger

[01:11:36] [SPEAKER_01]: to do something

[01:11:36] [SPEAKER_01]: because they feel

[01:11:38] [SPEAKER_01]: when you are on that zero point

[01:11:40] [SPEAKER_01]: I have to go up

[01:11:41] [SPEAKER_01]: or I have to go down

[01:11:42] [SPEAKER_01]: due to negativity

[01:11:43] [SPEAKER_01]: but those people have the courage

[01:11:46] [SPEAKER_01]: to come to me

[01:11:48] [SPEAKER_01]: and that means that they are open

[01:11:50] [SPEAKER_01]: for growing

[01:11:52] [SPEAKER_01]: in their own value

[01:11:54] [SPEAKER_01]: and what I find so beautiful

[01:11:56] [SPEAKER_01]: those people who come in

[01:11:58] [SPEAKER_01]: in a bag and a bag

[01:12:01] [SPEAKER_01]: that I am very angry

[01:12:02] [SPEAKER_01]: that he has brought courage

[01:12:04] [SPEAKER_01]: that he has brought courage

[01:12:05] [SPEAKER_01]: I have to do something

[01:12:06] [SPEAKER_01]: because I don't want to be like that

[01:12:09] [SPEAKER_01]: in that black hole

[01:12:11] [SPEAKER_01]: that's where I work on my name

[01:12:12] [SPEAKER_01]: that is

[01:12:14] [SPEAKER_01]: actually my mission there

[01:12:16] [SPEAKER_01]: and no one will go out without hope

[01:12:20] [SPEAKER_01]: and hope is already above

[01:12:21] [SPEAKER_01]: the scale in the positive direction

[01:12:24] [SPEAKER_01]: and then we can only grow

[01:12:26] [SPEAKER_01]: but it won't go in a straight line

[01:12:28] [SPEAKER_01]: that is

[01:12:29] [SPEAKER_03]: that is what you live

[01:12:31] [SPEAKER_03]: that is

[01:12:32] [SPEAKER_03]: oh man, Nelly

[01:12:34] [SPEAKER_03]: I find it so difficult to hear

[01:12:37] [SPEAKER_03]: what you said

[01:12:37] [SPEAKER_03]: and we will close here

[01:12:39] [SPEAKER_03]: because we are going to stop the recording

[01:12:41] [SPEAKER_03]: we are going to answer some questions

[01:12:44] [SPEAKER_03]: thank you very much Nelly

[01:12:45] [SPEAKER_03]: I think the first one was cool

[01:12:48] [SPEAKER_03]: but there is nothing above physical

[01:12:50] [SPEAKER_03]: and it was a very special feeling

[01:12:53] [SPEAKER_03]: that you know each other

[01:12:54] [SPEAKER_03]: and still not

[01:12:57] [SPEAKER_03]: so thank you very very

[01:13:01] [SPEAKER_03]: very much

[01:13:01] [SPEAKER_03]: so thank you

[01:13:11] [SPEAKER_03]: and especially continue

[01:13:12] [SPEAKER_03]: with the people

[01:13:14] [SPEAKER_03]: must give hope to Antoakker

[01:13:18] [SPEAKER_01]: absolutely

[01:13:19] [SPEAKER_01]: I have to give very honestly

[01:13:21] [SPEAKER_01]: then it is also my satisfaction

[01:13:25] [SPEAKER_01]: all those

[01:13:26] [SPEAKER_01]: all those assistants

[01:13:27] [SPEAKER_01]: who disappear

[01:13:29] [SPEAKER_01]: in nothing if you see

[01:13:31] [SPEAKER_01]: what beautiful people

[01:13:33] [SPEAKER_01]: can be seen

[01:13:34] [SPEAKER_03]: but you are burning light

[01:13:35] [SPEAKER_03]: so it is dark

[01:13:38] [SPEAKER_01]: yes, that may be

[01:13:40] [SPEAKER_01]: cliché and maybe was spiritual

[01:13:42] [SPEAKER_01]: but

[01:13:44] [SPEAKER_01]: light drives the house

[01:13:45] [SPEAKER_01]: and that is

[01:13:46] [SPEAKER_03]: and nothing else

[01:13:50] [SPEAKER_01]: late for the world leaders

[01:13:52] [SPEAKER_01]: that they do not see

[01:13:53] [SPEAKER_01]: but well

[01:13:56] [SPEAKER_03]: I have a lot

[01:13:58] [SPEAKER_03]: but if I don't have that

[01:14:00] [SPEAKER_03]: we have to go

[01:14:00] [SPEAKER_03]: thank you

[01:14:02] [SPEAKER_03]: to listen to a great conversation

[01:14:04] [SPEAKER_03]: I hope you have understood something

[01:14:05] [SPEAKER_03]: and that you have given your insights

[01:14:08] [SPEAKER_03]: to live closer to yourself

[01:14:11] [SPEAKER_03]: and to take your life in hands

[01:14:13] [SPEAKER_03]: while you buy one of the books

[01:14:14] [SPEAKER_03]: that we discussed

[01:14:16] [SPEAKER_03]: then we go back to psgrow.com

[01:14:18] [SPEAKER_03]: that is

[01:14:21] [SPEAKER_03]: would be great

[01:14:23] [SPEAKER_03]: if you also can do your love

[01:14:24] [SPEAKER_03]: thanks to a review

[01:14:26] [SPEAKER_03]: that ends on iTunes, Spotify or Youtube

[01:14:28] [SPEAKER_03]: and for the rest I wish you

[01:14:30] [SPEAKER_03]: a fantastic live

[01:14:31] [SPEAKER_03]: fantastic week, fantastic day

[01:14:33] [SPEAKER_03]: until next week, dance day